3 ms·

Why do you say `a white middle european dude`?

9dev 4y ago
To highlight the privilege they have, such as not drowning in the Mediterranean due to being born too far in the south, or having access to highly payed jobs and free education, or not being sexually harassed for having a vagina..?
- aaa_aaa 4y ago
  This is just unnecessary projection.
kaba0 4y ago
Because presumably parent commenter is one?
atoav 4y ago
Because this is my heritage? I grew up in a very wealthy, stable, safe society with social healthcare and social safety. On top of that: within that society I grew up as the kid of wealthy parents who did not have to learn a new language to survive and I do not have visual features that make it harder for me to survive. I am basically playing life on toddler-difficulty. Giving this background programming open source software is not something that is forced upon me by evil, exploitative corporate overlords, but a past time I chose to do, partly because I believe in the values of open source software and partly because I like and use open source software and giving back is the right thing to do. If I liked I could immidiately leave open source and still have the happiest of lifes. People which have been really exploited: 1. have a totally different starting point ("difficulty level") 2. have had no choice to do what they liked if they wanted to survive 3. had no rules that they could follow if they just wanted a happy life, the colonizers/exploiters make up the rules as they like. The exploited being on the wrong end of the stick has to buckle 4. have to hide their own culture, religion, believes and/or language if they wanted to survive So I highlighted my own position in history to underline how ridiculous the comparison is. And this is just about the comparison used, I actually agree with the general idea that open source maintainers need to watch for their own well being, should get better (and more predictable) compensation etc. But comparing this to have your children taken away, to have families torn apart, to all the attrocities of slavery is utterly over the top and should not stand uncorrected.
- aaa_aaa 4y ago
  Well I do not share your past, culture, ethnicity and probably ideology. I am an open source developer. I am baffled when people conflate irrelevant things like this.
  - cassianoleal 4y ago
    > when people conflate irrelevant things I don't think GP was. A lot of people with different past, culture, ethnicity and ideologies than theirs have also never been exploited. One thing doesn't exclude the other.
  - atoav 4y ago
    I only spoke for myself and it is quite... creative from you to assume otherwise. That aside I know many open source developers from various backgrounds and non of them is forced to write open source software in any kind of condition that would even remotely compare to slavery. Maybe you know better and can educate me.
    - atoav 4y ago
      Even in conditions were people might be forced to write software for real, e.g. North Korea — I would think the software they would have to write would not be open source, but quite the opposite. Are there corpos that make use of open source in egoistical and asocial ways? For sure. But that doesn't mean the working conditions of those working those projects are even in the slightest like slavery or colonialism. Even if we talk about it on a birds-eye view level of human beings exploiting the work of other human beings the difference is that software doesn't go away when more people use it. It is not the same as going aomwhere and taking the land of some indigenous people. Also open source developers (unlike the subjects of colonialization and slavery) can always decide to just walk away from it.

9dev 4y ago

To highlight the privilege they have, such as not drowning in the Mediterranean due to being born too far in the south, or having access to highly payed jobs and free education, or not being sexually harassed for having a vagina..?

aaa_aaa 4y ago
This is just unnecessary projection.

kaba0 4y ago

Because presumably parent commenter is one?

atoav 4y ago

Because this is my heritage? I grew up in a very wealthy, stable, safe society with social healthcare and social safety. On top of that: within that society I grew up as the kid of wealthy parents who did not have to learn a new language to survive and I do not have visual features that make it harder for me to survive. I am basically playing life on toddler-difficulty. Giving this background programming open source software is not something that is forced upon me by evil, exploitative corporate overlords, but a past time I chose to do, partly because I believe in the values of open source software and partly because I like and use open source software and giving back is the right thing to do. If I liked I could immidiately leave open source and still have the happiest of lifes. People which have been really exploited: 1. have a totally different starting point ("difficulty level") 2. have had no choice to do what they liked if they wanted to survive 3. had no rules that they could follow if they just wanted a happy life, the colonizers/exploiters make up the rules as they like. The exploited being on the wrong end of the stick has to buckle 4. have to hide their own culture, religion, believes and/or language if they wanted to survive So I highlighted my own position in history to underline how ridiculous the comparison is. And this is just about the comparison used, I actually agree with the general idea that open source maintainers need to watch for their own well being, should get better (and more predictable) compensation etc. But comparing this to have your children taken away, to have families torn apart, to all the attrocities of slavery is utterly over the top and should not stand uncorrected.

aaa_aaa 4y ago
Well I do not share your past, culture, ethnicity and probably ideology. I am an open source developer. I am baffled when people conflate irrelevant things like this.
- cassianoleal 4y ago
  > when people conflate irrelevant things I don't think GP was. A lot of people with different past, culture, ethnicity and ideologies than theirs have also never been exploited. One thing doesn't exclude the other.
- atoav 4y ago
  I only spoke for myself and it is quite... creative from you to assume otherwise. That aside I know many open source developers from various backgrounds and non of them is forced to write open source software in any kind of condition that would even remotely compare to slavery. Maybe you know better and can educate me.
  - atoav 4y ago
    Even in conditions were people might be forced to write software for real, e.g. North Korea — I would think the software they would have to write would not be open source, but quite the opposite. Are there corpos that make use of open source in egoistical and asocial ways? For sure. But that doesn't mean the working conditions of those working those projects are even in the slightest like slavery or colonialism. Even if we talk about it on a birds-eye view level of human beings exploiting the work of other human beings the difference is that software doesn't go away when more people use it. It is not the same as going aomwhere and taking the land of some indigenous people. Also open source developers (unlike the subjects of colonialization and slavery) can always decide to just walk away from it.