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>I guess my real point is that you should question whether you really need to take Calculus. There are very few classes in school that any student "really need

by Loocid 4y ago

>I guess my real point is that you should question whether you really need to take Calculus. There are very few classes in school that any student "really needs" yet for some reason Calculus, or math in general is the one that takes the brunt of this argument. Why? Whens the last time you needed to know that Hydrogen has 1 proton and 1 electron for instance?

WheelsAtLarge 4y ago
Here's an HW case about why knowing about Hydrogen will help in life. Question: Why does Space X use kerosene and liquid oxygen rather than liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen a better power to weight fuel. Simply because of the size of the molecule. The Hydrogen molecule is such a small molecule that it's difficult an expensive to use vs kerosene. It's very easy for it to leak. As we have seen in the Artemis 1 rocket that uses hydrogen. There's my use case. I've used it at least once.
- Loocid 4y ago
  How is having that knowledge any different to if you knew the mathematics involved in the building and launching of the rocket? Knowing that didn't help you at all. If you didn't know about Hydrogen that rocket still would have launched. It's purely for your own interest. Unless you're a SpaceX engineer of course but then the other 99.9% of the people on the planet don't "need" to know about the size of Hydrogen and we are back to the same argument.
- presentation 4y ago
  Ah yes, I too design rockets on a daily basis.
- kristiandupont 4y ago
  Just above, you wrote: >Ok, given the number of people that take Calculus, how many will ever read an ML paper? For that matter, how many even know or care what ML is? ..and now you, apparently without joking, assert that the physics info is different because it's necessary in rocket science, the one thing that is colloquially used to describe knowledge that normal people will never have to worry about?
- lelanthran 4y ago
  > Here's an HW case about why knowing about Hydrogen will help in life. *proceeds to give an example only applicable to rocket scientists ... I think you accidentally disproved your own point.
vladvasiliu 4y ago
This may be an EU-centric view, but I think the "problem" with math is that, basically, it's a requirement for "success" in life. Selection at elite universities is mainly math-based. Sure, you're expected to have great grades in other subjects, but basically, if you suck at math, you're stuck with "suboptimal" paths. Yes, I know many people have made it without a college degree, or by following some other path. But most of "the rich" have been through elite universities, which require good grades in math. So, it can be perceived as a kind of gatekeeping. No one cares about chemistry. So, since neither chemistry nor calculus are seen as "useful in day to day life", but math is used as a selection criterion, people talk about math.
- urthor 4y ago
  The flipside is that all the well renumerated jobs are very mathematically intensive. Finanance, technology, they all are.
  - simonh 4y ago
    The vast majority of people working in those industries don't do any more calculations or maths that the average office worker. Yes deep down in the heart of their computer systems there's a ton of analysis going on, but only a very few people have to work on the calculations. Even them most financial transactions are just adding and subtracting.

by Loocid 4y ago

WheelsAtLarge 4y ago

Here's an HW case about why knowing about Hydrogen will help in life. Question: Why does Space X use kerosene and liquid oxygen rather than liquid hydrogen and liquid oxygen a better power to weight fuel. Simply because of the size of the molecule. The Hydrogen molecule is such a small molecule that it's difficult an expensive to use vs kerosene. It's very easy for it to leak. As we have seen in the Artemis 1 rocket that uses hydrogen. There's my use case. I've used it at least once.

Loocid 4y ago
How is having that knowledge any different to if you knew the mathematics involved in the building and launching of the rocket? Knowing that didn't help you at all. If you didn't know about Hydrogen that rocket still would have launched. It's purely for your own interest. Unless you're a SpaceX engineer of course but then the other 99.9% of the people on the planet don't "need" to know about the size of Hydrogen and we are back to the same argument.
presentation 4y ago
Ah yes, I too design rockets on a daily basis.
kristiandupont 4y ago
Just above, you wrote: >Ok, given the number of people that take Calculus, how many will ever read an ML paper? For that matter, how many even know or care what ML is? ..and now you, apparently without joking, assert that the physics info is different because it's necessary in rocket science, the one thing that is colloquially used to describe knowledge that normal people will never have to worry about?
lelanthran 4y ago
> Here's an HW case about why knowing about Hydrogen will help in life. *proceeds to give an example only applicable to rocket scientists ... I think you accidentally disproved your own point.

vladvasiliu 4y ago

This may be an EU-centric view, but I think the "problem" with math is that, basically, it's a requirement for "success" in life. Selection at elite universities is mainly math-based. Sure, you're expected to have great grades in other subjects, but basically, if you suck at math, you're stuck with "suboptimal" paths. Yes, I know many people have made it without a college degree, or by following some other path. But most of "the rich" have been through elite universities, which require good grades in math. So, it can be perceived as a kind of gatekeeping. No one cares about chemistry. So, since neither chemistry nor calculus are seen as "useful in day to day life", but math is used as a selection criterion, people talk about math.

urthor 4y ago
The flipside is that all the well renumerated jobs are very mathematically intensive. Finanance, technology, they all are.
- simonh 4y ago
  The vast majority of people working in those industries don't do any more calculations or maths that the average office worker. Yes deep down in the heart of their computer systems there's a ton of analysis going on, but only a very few people have to work on the calculations. Even them most financial transactions are just adding and subtracting.