3 ms·

> How representative is Aronian as an example of skill trajectories in chess? It doesn't really matter, does it? There's a big difference between telling some

by JadeNB 4y ago

> How representative is Aronian as an example of skill trajectories in chess? It doesn't really matter, does it? There's a big difference between telling someone "if you're not a GM by age 14 [but actually I mean 15], then don't bother, it's hopeless" and "a typical top-level player reaches GM by age 14, but it is possible to reach that level even if you are a relatively 'late bloomer'." I'd prefer not to err on the side of telling people not to try.

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a-dub 4y ago
as a rule it is decidedly uncouth in our society to use population statistics when speaking in terms of ability or potential, as the act of making those statements can bias real world abilities and potentials by setting expectations of limits.
dhikapow 4y ago
There's a big difference between "[if you're not a GM by age 14], it is unlikely that you can reach the top levels of chess." and "..then don't bother, it's hopeless". The former statement is perfectly valid, nobody saying that it's hopeless
- quadrifoliate 4y ago
  > nobody saying that it's hopeless Well, it's a report about cheating which is essentially claiming that if you're not a GM by age 14, then you must be cheating. Which is...kind of the same thing.
  - burnished 4y ago
    It literally does not say that. What do you want them to do? Leave out all the weird or suspicious stuff so that some other commenter will swing by and complain that they didn't analyze it? The conclusion of their report is repeated several times; no evidence of OTB cheating.
    - quadrifoliate 4y ago
      > Leave out all the weird or suspicious stuff so that some other commenter will swing by and complain that they didn't analyze it? I don't think any serious commenters are going to complain about the absence of stereotypes about "the greats" unbacked by statistical analysis. That is what is bad. The actual analysis of anomalously fast progress at equivalent ages is fine.
glenstein 4y ago
>It doesn't really matter, does it? It's literally the single most important fact in this context. If there are lots of people like Aronian, then there's nothing out of the ordinary about the evolution of Hans Neiman as a player. If he's a rare and unusual example, he shouldn't be cited to suggest Hans' skill growth is within the norm. >I'd prefer not to err on the side of telling people not to try. This is a non-sequitur.

by JadeNB 4y ago

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

a-dub 4y ago

as a rule it is decidedly uncouth in our society to use population statistics when speaking in terms of ability or potential, as the act of making those statements can bias real world abilities and potentials by setting expectations of limits.

dhikapow 4y ago

There's a big difference between "[if you're not a GM by age 14], it is unlikely that you can reach the top levels of chess." and "..then don't bother, it's hopeless". The former statement is perfectly valid, nobody saying that it's hopeless

quadrifoliate 4y ago
> nobody saying that it's hopeless Well, it's a report about cheating which is essentially claiming that if you're not a GM by age 14, then you must be cheating. Which is...kind of the same thing.
- burnished 4y ago
  It literally does not say that. What do you want them to do? Leave out all the weird or suspicious stuff so that some other commenter will swing by and complain that they didn't analyze it? The conclusion of their report is repeated several times; no evidence of OTB cheating.
  - quadrifoliate 4y ago
    > Leave out all the weird or suspicious stuff so that some other commenter will swing by and complain that they didn't analyze it? I don't think any serious commenters are going to complain about the absence of stereotypes about "the greats" unbacked by statistical analysis. That is what is bad. The actual analysis of anomalously fast progress at equivalent ages is fine.

glenstein 4y ago

>It doesn't really matter, does it? It's literally the single most important fact in this context. If there are lots of people like Aronian, then there's nothing out of the ordinary about the evolution of Hans Neiman as a player. If he's a rare and unusual example, he shouldn't be cited to suggest Hans' skill growth is within the norm. >I'd prefer not to err on the side of telling people not to try. This is a non-sequitur.