4 ms·

Seems to be happening in the poker world as well. https://twitter.com/dexerto/status/1575867098328289280 https://twitter.com/dexerto/status/1575867098328289280

mellosouls 4y ago
Discussed here the other day. There was no evidence but seemed to be lots of butthurt and bullying there as well.
JshWright 4y ago
What next, competitive fishing?
- pks016 4y ago
  Only in Ohio.
- the_only_law 4y ago
  Oddly I saw a conversation about exactly this a few days ago.
  - JshWright 4y ago
    Yeah, that was the (perhaps slightly too obscure) reference.
    - the_only_law 4y ago
      I see. I wasn’t too familiar with the specifics, I just happened to walk into a convo about it. I thought they were all talking about local people at the time, not a national news item.
- gammarator 4y ago
  … actually yes, if you haven’t seen it: https://www.npr.org/2022/10/03/1126570725/fish-weights-walleye-competition https://www.npr.org/2022/10/03/1126570725/fish-weights-walle...
  - JshWright 4y ago
    Oh man, that would have been one hell of a coincidence if I wasn't making that reference
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
jasonwatkinspdx 4y ago
For anyone not following this I'll save you some time with the TL;DR: Hustler Casino livestreams a regular game with High Stakes Poker. A new player who is also a wealthy model wife type made a call against a pro that sucked out where her decision making was baffling. Off camera but on mic the pro demanded his money back. Then it blew up into a giant drama of accused cheating. Here's my read on what happened: this woman is basically buying her way into being a poker celebrity, something many people have done before, some of them successfully in the long run. She's new the game, and pretty clearly not as sophisticated a player as the rest of that table, to put it mildly. This hand would be a very bizarre one to cheat in, as there were others with much more upside and that would trigger less suspicion. On the other hand, new players often combine both overconfidence with nervous panic, especially when say this is the biggest stream you've gotten onto yet with your plan. So basically I think she just made a huge emotionally driven donkey call like you'd see at a drunken house game, then just said whatever she thought would sound smarter than "I did a donkey call." Then when this big figure in the poker world is giving her the death stare and then asking for his money back, she probably just wanted to put out the fire as quickly as possible. This is by far the most parsimonious explanation.
- LgWoodenBadger 4y ago
  From personal experience, there’s nothing “good” poker players hate more than losing to a “bad” poker player who “shouldn’t have even been in the band.”
  - jasonwatkinspdx 4y ago
    Especially in this era of GTO kinda taking over poker mindshare, it's important to remember that poker games happen in a context and something like Game Theory is really only applicable when you can fully account for everyone's subjective ordering of utility of outcomes. I played in a weekly game back during the early 00's poker boom, where one guy that showed up pretty clearly just wanted to get away from his wife and get drunk. It was a low stakes game (intentionally so diverse friends could play) and the amounts involved were totally immaterial to him. He had zero problem being the fish of the game and no real pride in his play or the outcome.
lofaszvanitt 4y ago
Just don't let a few bad apples ruin the fun and set new rules.
crystaln 4y ago
In my poker heyday, I made similar call downs in big games when I read someone for a straight draw and had a backup flush draw as she did. If you know they are going to bluff if they miss, it's very profitable and also maddeningly tilt inducing. I once called $5k cold on the river and won with J high and several over cards on the board in what ended up a $15k+ pot. Her move esp by a somewhat amateur player is not that outlandish.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
TrackerFF 4y ago
Yes, when you reach a certain level - any plays which do not conform to the "best practices" of the day, will look highly suspicious. In poker, when you're playing at the top level, against top level people, it is assumed that all players on the table know things like GTO, etc. When people start to deviate from stuff like that, it is either assumed that the player is cheating, or a complete beginner. Same with chess. When top players start making really weird moves, they're either getting computer assistance - or they've made a nonsensical move. And for people that seemingly never do nonsensical moves, it is easy to conclude that they must be cheating. It is actually not too different from video game speed runs. The margins are so small, and all the top level players know every move. Discovering new stuff can take years - so if a newcomer suddenly starts making waves, beating seasoned pros left and right with seemingly genius strategies - is he a genius, or cheating? Most in the community will go for the latter.
Maursault 4y ago
Garrett's behavior indicates narcissistic and/or antisocial personality disorder. He got outplayed by a woman and couldn't handle it happening again, and lashed-out. This is narcissism 101. He accused her of cheating with absolutely no evidence, then proceeded to corner Lew and threaten her off-camera in a dark hallway. This is advanced narcissism. Only after Garrett demanded his money back did Lew offer to return the money. This is extortion. She should have instead charged Garrett with menacing, gotten a restraining order and sued him for slander, but it is understandable she feared for her life and reputation, as many after being threatened have trouble thinking rationally, and she likely just wanted to escape from danger. It's pretty fucked up, and Garrett is a coward that only wins by bullying other players and is also a giant, walking, steaming turd that should be banned from the game.

mellosouls 4y ago

Discussed here the other day. There was no evidence but seemed to be lots of butthurt and bullying there as well.

JshWright 4y ago

What next, competitive fishing?

pks016 4y ago
Only in Ohio.
the_only_law 4y ago
Oddly I saw a conversation about exactly this a few days ago.
- JshWright 4y ago
  Yeah, that was the (perhaps slightly too obscure) reference.
  - the_only_law 4y ago
    I see. I wasn’t too familiar with the specifics, I just happened to walk into a convo about it. I thought they were all talking about local people at the time, not a national news item.
gammarator 4y ago
… actually yes, if you haven’t seen it: https://www.npr.org/2022/10/03/1126570725/fish-weights-walleye-competition https://www.npr.org/2022/10/03/1126570725/fish-weights-walle...
- JshWright 4y ago
  Oh man, that would have been one hell of a coincidence if I wasn't making that reference

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

jasonwatkinspdx 4y ago

For anyone not following this I'll save you some time with the TL;DR: Hustler Casino livestreams a regular game with High Stakes Poker. A new player who is also a wealthy model wife type made a call against a pro that sucked out where her decision making was baffling. Off camera but on mic the pro demanded his money back. Then it blew up into a giant drama of accused cheating. Here's my read on what happened: this woman is basically buying her way into being a poker celebrity, something many people have done before, some of them successfully in the long run. She's new the game, and pretty clearly not as sophisticated a player as the rest of that table, to put it mildly. This hand would be a very bizarre one to cheat in, as there were others with much more upside and that would trigger less suspicion. On the other hand, new players often combine both overconfidence with nervous panic, especially when say this is the biggest stream you've gotten onto yet with your plan. So basically I think she just made a huge emotionally driven donkey call like you'd see at a drunken house game, then just said whatever she thought would sound smarter than "I did a donkey call." Then when this big figure in the poker world is giving her the death stare and then asking for his money back, she probably just wanted to put out the fire as quickly as possible. This is by far the most parsimonious explanation.

LgWoodenBadger 4y ago
From personal experience, there’s nothing “good” poker players hate more than losing to a “bad” poker player who “shouldn’t have even been in the band.”
- jasonwatkinspdx 4y ago
  Especially in this era of GTO kinda taking over poker mindshare, it's important to remember that poker games happen in a context and something like Game Theory is really only applicable when you can fully account for everyone's subjective ordering of utility of outcomes. I played in a weekly game back during the early 00's poker boom, where one guy that showed up pretty clearly just wanted to get away from his wife and get drunk. It was a low stakes game (intentionally so diverse friends could play) and the amounts involved were totally immaterial to him. He had zero problem being the fish of the game and no real pride in his play or the outcome.

lofaszvanitt 4y ago

Just don't let a few bad apples ruin the fun and set new rules.

crystaln 4y ago

In my poker heyday, I made similar call downs in big games when I read someone for a straight draw and had a backup flush draw as she did. If you know they are going to bluff if they miss, it's very profitable and also maddeningly tilt inducing. I once called $5k cold on the river and won with J high and several over cards on the board in what ended up a $15k+ pot. Her move esp by a somewhat amateur player is not that outlandish.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

TrackerFF 4y ago

Yes, when you reach a certain level - any plays which do not conform to the "best practices" of the day, will look highly suspicious. In poker, when you're playing at the top level, against top level people, it is assumed that all players on the table know things like GTO, etc. When people start to deviate from stuff like that, it is either assumed that the player is cheating, or a complete beginner. Same with chess. When top players start making really weird moves, they're either getting computer assistance - or they've made a nonsensical move. And for people that seemingly never do nonsensical moves, it is easy to conclude that they must be cheating. It is actually not too different from video game speed runs. The margins are so small, and all the top level players know every move. Discovering new stuff can take years - so if a newcomer suddenly starts making waves, beating seasoned pros left and right with seemingly genius strategies - is he a genius, or cheating? Most in the community will go for the latter.

Maursault 4y ago

Garrett's behavior indicates narcissistic and/or antisocial personality disorder. He got outplayed by a woman and couldn't handle it happening again, and lashed-out. This is narcissism 101. He accused her of cheating with absolutely no evidence, then proceeded to corner Lew and threaten her off-camera in a dark hallway. This is advanced narcissism. Only after Garrett demanded his money back did Lew offer to return the money. This is extortion. She should have instead charged Garrett with menacing, gotten a restraining order and sued him for slander, but it is understandable she feared for her life and reputation, as many after being threatened have trouble thinking rationally, and she likely just wanted to escape from danger. It's pretty fucked up, and Garrett is a coward that only wins by bullying other players and is also a giant, walking, steaming turd that should be banned from the game.