3 ms·

I don’t know about those games … but isn’t the incomplete/hidden information a fundamental difference from chess and how easy it is to cheat?

by maegul 4y ago

jasonwatkinspdx 4y ago
Only partly. In DOTA for example one of the more common cheats is scripting that provides the player with reaction time more like a pro in triggering items and abilities.
- maegul 4y ago
  That makes lots of sense for quick real time games. But getting back to my point about how integral computer engines are in chess for training/preparation ... a script to enhance reaction times seems much more like doping in sports where it probably doesn't improve the player's intrinsic abilities only their performance.
  - karpierz 4y ago
    Poker would also break if you could just use algorithms to tell you how much to bet and when to fold. I suppose any strategic, turn-based game breaks down as soon as you have a world class engine for it.
    - jasonwatkinspdx 4y ago
      Exactly. Even just a unary hint that a particular position is dangerous would be a huge advantage to even a moderately skilled player.
    - vl 4y ago
      In Poker all skilled players remember all probability tables, and there are heuristics for calculating probabilities on the flight, and players also count chips, so any players has all the information for theoretical optimal bets. The game happens on estimating bluffs and adjusting your strategy agains opponent bluffs.
    - maegul 4y ago
      > I suppose any strategic, turn-based game breaks down as soon as you have a world class engine for it. Yep. Perhaps just a consequence of technology and an oncoming "singularity" ... professional sports just don't make much sense anymore apart from their value as entertainment (which is already questionable in the case of Chess IMO) and all of the noise around cheating etc is much more about "being immersed in the story" just like good film directing and VFX/SFX. You're either a fan or aren't and that's just how it is. Hopefully the love and appreciation for amateur sports makes a return ... not much to cheat for if the only prize is pride and pleasure.
Aicy 4y ago
I'd argue it's much easier to cheat in Chess than those games. In Chess the "hidden information" is the best move to play (I know I'm misusing the term there), which is easily determined by using a computer. eSports are similar to normal sports in the fact that even if you have complete information, you need the physical skill to back it up. Professional DotA / SC2 / CSGO players would still wipe the floor with a mediocre player using maphacks.

I don’t know about those games … but isn’t the incomplete/hidden information a fundamental difference from chess and how easy it is to cheat?

by maegul 4y ago

I don’t know about those games … but isn’t the incomplete/hidden information a fundamental difference from chess and how easy it is to cheat?

jasonwatkinspdx 4y ago

Only partly. In DOTA for example one of the more common cheats is scripting that provides the player with reaction time more like a pro in triggering items and abilities.

maegul 4y ago
That makes lots of sense for quick real time games. But getting back to my point about how integral computer engines are in chess for training/preparation ... a script to enhance reaction times seems much more like doping in sports where it probably doesn't improve the player's intrinsic abilities only their performance.
- karpierz 4y ago
  Poker would also break if you could just use algorithms to tell you how much to bet and when to fold. I suppose any strategic, turn-based game breaks down as soon as you have a world class engine for it.
  - jasonwatkinspdx 4y ago
    Exactly. Even just a unary hint that a particular position is dangerous would be a huge advantage to even a moderately skilled player.
  - vl 4y ago
    In Poker all skilled players remember all probability tables, and there are heuristics for calculating probabilities on the flight, and players also count chips, so any players has all the information for theoretical optimal bets. The game happens on estimating bluffs and adjusting your strategy agains opponent bluffs.
  - maegul 4y ago
    > I suppose any strategic, turn-based game breaks down as soon as you have a world class engine for it. Yep. Perhaps just a consequence of technology and an oncoming "singularity" ... professional sports just don't make much sense anymore apart from their value as entertainment (which is already questionable in the case of Chess IMO) and all of the noise around cheating etc is much more about "being immersed in the story" just like good film directing and VFX/SFX. You're either a fan or aren't and that's just how it is. Hopefully the love and appreciation for amateur sports makes a return ... not much to cheat for if the only prize is pride and pleasure.

Aicy 4y ago

I'd argue it's much easier to cheat in Chess than those games. In Chess the "hidden information" is the best move to play (I know I'm misusing the term there), which is easily determined by using a computer. eSports are similar to normal sports in the fact that even if you have complete information, you need the physical skill to back it up. Professional DotA / SC2 / CSGO players would still wipe the floor with a mediocre player using maphacks.