5 ms·

I think the biggest tell is how he wasn't able to explain his play and just threw a smug response whenever asked to describe anything.

Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
I might take into consideration rapid rise in ratings, and even this chess.com report, but please, this argument about post game interview is pure nonsense. It is not a 'tell' in the slightest. Any player with at least IM title will give you a decent analysis of that position if he wants, and Niemann is certainly better than IM even without alleged computer help. He was visibly disinterested in the interview and it was conducted in a rather hostile manner, so it is perfectly understandable that he probably just wanted a break and rest.
- Retric 4y ago
  It’s definitely evidence just not very strong evidence on it’s own. Combined with a history of cheating and a few other tells and things look rather damming.
  - Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
    It is not an evidence at all. Things look rather damning only if you are already biased.
    - Retric 4y ago
      Are you suggesting the unbiased stance should be to ignore all prior evidence? People repeat themselves and form habits.
      - Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
        Whatever people do at young age does not have to define the rest of their lives. Did you never do anything stupid in your life? Also, I don't know why alleged cheating when playing on some site should affect OTB tournament games. They are even governed by different bodies! Just have really thorough anti-cheating measures in place, and see how strong he plays.
        Retric 4y ago
        I don’t know if you are aware but he was removed from chess.com in 2020 and admired he was cheating then. So has a long term and recent history with cheating, this wasn’t just some youthful indiscretion. The report includes strong evidence he was recently and repeatedly cheating in games for prize money which shows a serious lack of ethics. Anyway, I don’t see any significant difference in OTB vs online cheating. It’s at most slightly easier to cheat online, but the OTB prize pools are significant.
        Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
        > It’s at most slightly easier to cheat online This statement is so far removed from reality that I am not sure that it would be productive to continue the discussion.
        Retric 4y ago
        Your disbelief just shows ignorance. The hard part of cheating isn’t inputting and receiving moves, and in fact documented chess cheating goes back to the late 1800’s.
        Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
        Well what do I know about chess? my lichess rapid rating is slightly below 2600, so chances are your expertise in chess cheating far exceeds mine. Please, tell us how exactly did Niemann cheat in that OTB game with Carlsen, and circumvented the measures taken by the tournament organizers?
    - aliswe 4y ago
      Why repeat the same statement in another message?
Tenoke 4y ago
Other players have had questionable post-game interviews. This is evidence but without history of cheating it wouldn't mean much.
phnofive 4y ago
I think this lines up with the other circumstantial evidence, but can you quantify this? Like, was he pretty much never willing to explain his plays? Has any other rising star or top competitor been similarly uncooperative? People aren't coins, with each toss unaffected by previous landings, but at the same time, not giving evidence shouldn't be considered evidence itself.

Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago

I might take into consideration rapid rise in ratings, and even this chess.com report, but please, this argument about post game interview is pure nonsense. It is not a 'tell' in the slightest. Any player with at least IM title will give you a decent analysis of that position if he wants, and Niemann is certainly better than IM even without alleged computer help. He was visibly disinterested in the interview and it was conducted in a rather hostile manner, so it is perfectly understandable that he probably just wanted a break and rest.

Retric 4y ago
It’s definitely evidence just not very strong evidence on it’s own. Combined with a history of cheating and a few other tells and things look rather damming.
- Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
  It is not an evidence at all. Things look rather damning only if you are already biased.
  - Retric 4y ago
    Are you suggesting the unbiased stance should be to ignore all prior evidence? People repeat themselves and form habits.
    - Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
      Whatever people do at young age does not have to define the rest of their lives. Did you never do anything stupid in your life? Also, I don't know why alleged cheating when playing on some site should affect OTB tournament games. They are even governed by different bodies! Just have really thorough anti-cheating measures in place, and see how strong he plays.
      - Retric 4y ago
        I don’t know if you are aware but he was removed from chess.com in 2020 and admired he was cheating then. So has a long term and recent history with cheating, this wasn’t just some youthful indiscretion. The report includes strong evidence he was recently and repeatedly cheating in games for prize money which shows a serious lack of ethics. Anyway, I don’t see any significant difference in OTB vs online cheating. It’s at most slightly easier to cheat online, but the OTB prize pools are significant.
        Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
        > It’s at most slightly easier to cheat online This statement is so far removed from reality that I am not sure that it would be productive to continue the discussion.
        Retric 4y ago
        Your disbelief just shows ignorance. The hard part of cheating isn’t inputting and receiving moves, and in fact documented chess cheating goes back to the late 1800’s.
        Andrew_nenakhov 4y ago
        Well what do I know about chess? my lichess rapid rating is slightly below 2600, so chances are your expertise in chess cheating far exceeds mine. Please, tell us how exactly did Niemann cheat in that OTB game with Carlsen, and circumvented the measures taken by the tournament organizers?
  - aliswe 4y ago
    Why repeat the same statement in another message?

Tenoke 4y ago

Other players have had questionable post-game interviews. This is evidence but without history of cheating it wouldn't mean much.

phnofive 4y ago

I think this lines up with the other circumstantial evidence, but can you quantify this? Like, was he pretty much never willing to explain his plays? Has any other rising star or top competitor been similarly uncooperative? People aren't coins, with each toss unaffected by previous landings, but at the same time, not giving evidence shouldn't be considered evidence itself.