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Can you back that up with evidence? I'm not sure what the situation is for Europe/the UK, but for the US it really doesn't seem to be the case that we are outso

Can you back that up with evidence? I'm not sure what the situation is for Europe/the UK, but for the US it really doesn't seem to be the case that we are outsourcing our emissions: https://noahpinion.substack.com/p/no-the-us-didnt-outsource-our-carbon https://noahpinion.substack.com/p/no-the-us-didnt-outsource-...

Aunche 4y ago
Maybe it's not to the extent that people are saying, but the charts clearly show that the EU and the US do outsource their emissions.
- ch4s3 4y ago
  In the same way that any imports involve extraterritorial emissions. The US manufacturers a lot of things and and does so with pretty good environmental standards compared to most other places.
- larsiusprime 4y ago
  Yes, but not to a sufficient degree that is congruent with the point people are trying to make (ie, that the outsourced emissions swamp the decrease in domestic emissions). Net emissions from the developed world -- in aggregate and per capita -- are declining.
otikik 4y ago
I believe the “consumption-based CO2” graph used on the article, which is the main pillar, falls short on three accounts: * It measures the CO2 it takes to constuct, but leaves (seems to leave out) the CO2 cost of transportation. When a TV has to travel around the world that cost isn’t trivial. * The article focuses on CO2 exclusively. If a TV made in China produces about the same CO2 as one done on shore, all is good, even if the former involves (for example) dumping acid into a river, which would be illegal in the US. Even if we want to keep the discussion exclusively about climate change, other emissions must be taken into account. Methane for example is 50 times more potent as a greenhouse gas than CO2. * The whole part about it being “only” about 18% in the case of Europe (that’s a lot!) and that “it has not changed much in the last 30 years” (that makes it worse!)

Aunche 4y ago

Maybe it's not to the extent that people are saying, but the charts clearly show that the EU and the US do outsource their emissions.

ch4s3 4y ago
In the same way that any imports involve extraterritorial emissions. The US manufacturers a lot of things and and does so with pretty good environmental standards compared to most other places.
larsiusprime 4y ago
Yes, but not to a sufficient degree that is congruent with the point people are trying to make (ie, that the outsourced emissions swamp the decrease in domestic emissions). Net emissions from the developed world -- in aggregate and per capita -- are declining.

otikik 4y ago

I believe the “consumption-based CO2” graph used on the article, which is the main pillar, falls short on three accounts: * It measures the CO2 it takes to constuct, but leaves (seems to leave out) the CO2 cost of transportation. When a TV has to travel around the world that cost isn’t trivial. * The article focuses on CO2 exclusively. If a TV made in China produces about the same CO2 as one done on shore, all is good, even if the former involves (for example) dumping acid into a river, which would be illegal in the US. Even if we want to keep the discussion exclusively about climate change, other emissions must be taken into account. Methane for example is 50 times more potent as a greenhouse gas than CO2. * The whole part about it being “only” about 18% in the case of Europe (that’s a lot!) and that “it has not changed much in the last 30 years” (that makes it worse!)