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>That does imply that you might consider some backup energy solutions for the winter. I'm a fan of kerosene lately. Less annoying to use than propane, and store

>That does imply that you might consider some backup energy solutions for the winter. I'm a fan of kerosene lately. Less annoying to use than propane, and stores almost as well. By backup you mean for heating? Can you safely burn kerosene indoors? I thought you would have all sort of pollutants on top of monoxide?

Syonyk 4y ago
Heating and light, yes. You can, and people have throughout the last century and a half, both for heat and light. In terms of winter, the fact that kerosene lanterns provide "a bit of light and a lot of heat" is useful - though the light coming off a good cold blast lantern is just wonderful, year round. A nice continuous spectrum, cooler than candles, but still a very nice yellow-orange, with more than enough to read by. I've been experimenting with them for a while now, and as far as I can tell, a properly burning kerosene lantern doesn't put any measurable particulate in the air, at least as far as PM2.5 or PM10. Run them too high, they'll certainly smoke, but run properly, I can't measure any real difference with the meters I have. They should be burning cleanly. The same goes for the wick type kerosene heaters - either convection or radiant. They should be burning clean, and if you get any smoke off them, you've got a problem that needs fixing (the good news is that it's almost always either just burning them dry to remove tars from the wick, or at worst replacing the wick). You shouldn't be getting any carbon monoxide off them either. That's from incomplete combustion, which, again, shouldn't be happening. A properly designed and operating lantern or heater will be feeding a strong draft into the burner. A window slightly open should provide enough venting for a typical unit burning - though I'd have a CO meter around any combustion heat as a normal habit anymore. If you're burning 1K, you'll get some kerosene odor on startup and shutdown, but it shouldn't be much during operation. However, if you're in the US (perhaps other places too), you can get Klean Heat, which is a kerosene substitute that's somewhat more expensive (~$15/gal vs about $10 for 1K out here), but burns significantly cleaner. It behaves the same, so can burn in the same lanterns, but just burns cleaner all around - less odor, less wick fouling (though that's not usually a big issue with 1K, just the red dyed stuff), etc. But, yes, I very much do refer to kerosene as a backup for heating. I prefer it over propane - it smells better (propane has a bit of a metallic tang, kerosene is a far warmer smell), and I don't have a pressurized bottle of flammable gas in the house. Kerosene is combustible - not flammable. The flash point of the stuff you should be using is around 140F, which means below that temperature, it doesn't emit enough vapor to ignite in regular air. Gasoline's flash point is -40, give or take, so it will happily generate vapors in regular air looking for a thing to light them of. Especially in the winter, at 40-50F, kerosene is quite safe compared to other heating solutions. Anyway, it's something to look into. Our energy systems are not in good shape globally, and being able to stay warm with the power grid down and the natural gas empty seems like the sort of thing one might want to consider more lately.
lmm 4y ago
"Safely" is relative, but here in Japan kerosene heaters are totally normal in older homes.
- Consultant32452 4y ago
  You can order indoor rated kerosene heaters on Amazon.
  - CydeWeys 4y ago
    Devil's advocate though, you can order lots of unsafe (and outright fraudulent) items on Amazon. You can often order a "widowmaker" male-to-male power cable, fake UL-certified power strips and UPSs that catch fire, etc.
- jbm 4y ago
  Those homes are also poorly insulated, and probably let gasses out much more easily than modern well-sealed homes. I didn't see kerosene heaters in new homes in Japan, probably for the same reason. As such, I would be hesitant to use a kerosene heater in my home without investigating it in much more detail. (It's a theoretical issue for me as my geographical area has more NG than it can use)
- fomine3 4y ago
  I realized that kerosene heater without exhaust that often used in cooler Japan area is really bad after I bought CO2 meter. CO2 easily go 10000ppm if ventilation is a bit poor (even poor insulation). Kerosene heater with exhaust pipe seems to fine, but now heat pump is generally better option. Still it seems to good backup for not to be death by freeze.
  - adrianN 4y ago
    I wouldn't burn anything indoors without having at least two carbon monoxide detectors in the room. Seems super risky to me.
    - 4y ago

Syonyk 4y ago

Heating and light, yes. You can, and people have throughout the last century and a half, both for heat and light. In terms of winter, the fact that kerosene lanterns provide "a bit of light and a lot of heat" is useful - though the light coming off a good cold blast lantern is just wonderful, year round. A nice continuous spectrum, cooler than candles, but still a very nice yellow-orange, with more than enough to read by. I've been experimenting with them for a while now, and as far as I can tell, a properly burning kerosene lantern doesn't put any measurable particulate in the air, at least as far as PM2.5 or PM10. Run them too high, they'll certainly smoke, but run properly, I can't measure any real difference with the meters I have. They should be burning cleanly. The same goes for the wick type kerosene heaters - either convection or radiant. They should be burning clean, and if you get any smoke off them, you've got a problem that needs fixing (the good news is that it's almost always either just burning them dry to remove tars from the wick, or at worst replacing the wick). You shouldn't be getting any carbon monoxide off them either. That's from incomplete combustion, which, again, shouldn't be happening. A properly designed and operating lantern or heater will be feeding a strong draft into the burner. A window slightly open should provide enough venting for a typical unit burning - though I'd have a CO meter around any combustion heat as a normal habit anymore. If you're burning 1K, you'll get some kerosene odor on startup and shutdown, but it shouldn't be much during operation. However, if you're in the US (perhaps other places too), you can get Klean Heat, which is a kerosene substitute that's somewhat more expensive (~$15/gal vs about $10 for 1K out here), but burns significantly cleaner. It behaves the same, so can burn in the same lanterns, but just burns cleaner all around - less odor, less wick fouling (though that's not usually a big issue with 1K, just the red dyed stuff), etc. But, yes, I very much do refer to kerosene as a backup for heating. I prefer it over propane - it smells better (propane has a bit of a metallic tang, kerosene is a far warmer smell), and I don't have a pressurized bottle of flammable gas in the house. Kerosene is combustible - not flammable. The flash point of the stuff you should be using is around 140F, which means below that temperature, it doesn't emit enough vapor to ignite in regular air. Gasoline's flash point is -40, give or take, so it will happily generate vapors in regular air looking for a thing to light them of. Especially in the winter, at 40-50F, kerosene is quite safe compared to other heating solutions. Anyway, it's something to look into. Our energy systems are not in good shape globally, and being able to stay warm with the power grid down and the natural gas empty seems like the sort of thing one might want to consider more lately.

lmm 4y ago

"Safely" is relative, but here in Japan kerosene heaters are totally normal in older homes.

Consultant32452 4y ago
You can order indoor rated kerosene heaters on Amazon.
- CydeWeys 4y ago
  Devil's advocate though, you can order lots of unsafe (and outright fraudulent) items on Amazon. You can often order a "widowmaker" male-to-male power cable, fake UL-certified power strips and UPSs that catch fire, etc.
jbm 4y ago
Those homes are also poorly insulated, and probably let gasses out much more easily than modern well-sealed homes. I didn't see kerosene heaters in new homes in Japan, probably for the same reason. As such, I would be hesitant to use a kerosene heater in my home without investigating it in much more detail. (It's a theoretical issue for me as my geographical area has more NG than it can use)
fomine3 4y ago
I realized that kerosene heater without exhaust that often used in cooler Japan area is really bad after I bought CO2 meter. CO2 easily go 10000ppm if ventilation is a bit poor (even poor insulation). Kerosene heater with exhaust pipe seems to fine, but now heat pump is generally better option. Still it seems to good backup for not to be death by freeze.
- adrianN 4y ago
  I wouldn't burn anything indoors without having at least two carbon monoxide detectors in the room. Seems super risky to me.
  - 4y ago