4 ms·

Aren’t you allowed to have open discussions about things anymore? Elon throws out stuff all the time, sometimes just to get the discussion started. Also, try t

Aren’t you allowed to have open discussions about things anymore? Elon throws out stuff all the time, sometimes just to get the discussion started. Also, try to steelman the guy. Where do you think this is coming from? That he agrees with Russia or that he wants to avoid nuclear war?

pessimizer 4y ago
Only Russians have open discussion. Why do you love Putin?
IntelMiner 4y ago
This rings of "just asking questions" https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Just_asking_questions https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Just_asking_questions
robswc 4y ago
Honestly. It honestly seems to me people want to tear down the man who noticed the elephant in the room. I'm 100% "pro-Ukraine", what Putin is doing is ridiculous and there's literally no justification. I have been absolutely trashed for pointing out some of the stories coming out of this war are just completely fake, though. Like the "Ghost of Kyiv" thing. I asked if there was any proof and just got instantly accused of supporting a "war-criminal." Not a fan of an environment where people will straw man you if you venture out of the "pre-defined opinion limits." I'm not an expert in this at all either... so forgive my ignorance but isn't there a very real risk of insane levels of carnage if the war ramps up to control over Crimea? What is stopping this from becoming a nuclear war? I know we can't just fold to the demands of every insane dictator... but I think its totally appropriate to ask what the chances of nuclear war (or a war resulting in millions dead) and if we're ok risking that for Crimea. You can do that without even a neuron of support for Russia.
- thoughtstheseus 4y ago
  Yes, losing Crimea is not an acceptable option for Putin and there are clear indications he will escalate the conflict if that happens - cyber, chemical, nuclear. With Nordstream blown there are few off-ramps for this conflict. Very worrisome.
  - robswc 4y ago
    If this is true, I think its perfectly reasonable for the world to speculate if Crimea is worth starting a nuclear war over. (and again, this can be done 100% without supporting anything Russia/Putin)
    - michaelmrose 4y ago
      You actually don't get to decide for other men if their homes are worth fighting for. Your opinion is irrelevant. Why don't you ask them if its worth fighting for?
- roelschroeven 4y ago
  What do you mean by "if the war ramps up to control over Crimea"? How can the war ramp up to that? It could potentially ramp down to that, and then we're back in the situation of 2014 - february 2022. Giving bullies what they want leads to them wanting more. See the monstrous failure of Chamberlain's appeasement policy in the early stages of WW II.
  - robswc 4y ago
    By that I mean a more intense war with a higher risk of going nuclear, over Crimea specifically. I'm not a fan of giving in to the demand of bullies either... but what bullies have the ability to trigger the end of the world as we know it? But sure... this is all based on the idea that simply surrendering Crimea would cause this to stop, which isn't guaranteed. Russia has shown it doesn't care to keep promises.
- baybal2 4y ago
- michaelmrose 4y ago
  Elon isn't calling out the elephant in the room he's entering a very crowded public pool where a fight is taking place while the other children look on and taking a very large smelly shit. The threat of nuclear war is very real however his solution is extremely stupid and only serves to provide some PR for a monster. If you notice how Musk handled the children stuck in a cave its a familiar pattern. Every time there is a crisis he chokes and says something stupid. He reverts to form. If we also can't fold to the demand of every insane dictator we also can't do so for every insane dictator with nukes either or they will in short order run the world because there are several to choose from incumbent and incipient. We can only build a future worth having by being willing to stand up and take the risk and call their bluff even at the risk of everything we hold dear. Men of small courage and lesser souls would deserve the terrible world their children would inherit.
michaelmrose 4y ago
You are allowed in the sense that police won't come to your door with bracelets. The court of public opinion has and will always be open 24/7 ready to sentence you to your fellow citizens contempt. In this case the contempt is well deserved. One doesn't just "throw stuff out to get the discussion started" regarding an ongoing genocidal rampage complete with rape and torture camps. It's in poor taste. Nobody cares what Elon wants because except interjecting himself uselessly into international politics he is irrelevant.

pessimizer 4y ago

Only Russians have open discussion. Why do you love Putin?

IntelMiner 4y ago

This rings of "just asking questions" https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Just_asking_questions https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Just_asking_questions

robswc 4y ago

Honestly. It honestly seems to me people want to tear down the man who noticed the elephant in the room. I'm 100% "pro-Ukraine", what Putin is doing is ridiculous and there's literally no justification. I have been absolutely trashed for pointing out some of the stories coming out of this war are just completely fake, though. Like the "Ghost of Kyiv" thing. I asked if there was any proof and just got instantly accused of supporting a "war-criminal." Not a fan of an environment where people will straw man you if you venture out of the "pre-defined opinion limits." I'm not an expert in this at all either... so forgive my ignorance but isn't there a very real risk of insane levels of carnage if the war ramps up to control over Crimea? What is stopping this from becoming a nuclear war? I know we can't just fold to the demands of every insane dictator... but I think its totally appropriate to ask what the chances of nuclear war (or a war resulting in millions dead) and if we're ok risking that for Crimea. You can do that without even a neuron of support for Russia.

thoughtstheseus 4y ago
Yes, losing Crimea is not an acceptable option for Putin and there are clear indications he will escalate the conflict if that happens - cyber, chemical, nuclear. With Nordstream blown there are few off-ramps for this conflict. Very worrisome.
- robswc 4y ago
  If this is true, I think its perfectly reasonable for the world to speculate if Crimea is worth starting a nuclear war over. (and again, this can be done 100% without supporting anything Russia/Putin)
  - michaelmrose 4y ago
    You actually don't get to decide for other men if their homes are worth fighting for. Your opinion is irrelevant. Why don't you ask them if its worth fighting for?
roelschroeven 4y ago
What do you mean by "if the war ramps up to control over Crimea"? How can the war ramp up to that? It could potentially ramp down to that, and then we're back in the situation of 2014 - february 2022. Giving bullies what they want leads to them wanting more. See the monstrous failure of Chamberlain's appeasement policy in the early stages of WW II.
- robswc 4y ago
  By that I mean a more intense war with a higher risk of going nuclear, over Crimea specifically. I'm not a fan of giving in to the demand of bullies either... but what bullies have the ability to trigger the end of the world as we know it? But sure... this is all based on the idea that simply surrendering Crimea would cause this to stop, which isn't guaranteed. Russia has shown it doesn't care to keep promises.
baybal2 4y ago
michaelmrose 4y ago
Elon isn't calling out the elephant in the room he's entering a very crowded public pool where a fight is taking place while the other children look on and taking a very large smelly shit. The threat of nuclear war is very real however his solution is extremely stupid and only serves to provide some PR for a monster. If you notice how Musk handled the children stuck in a cave its a familiar pattern. Every time there is a crisis he chokes and says something stupid. He reverts to form. If we also can't fold to the demand of every insane dictator we also can't do so for every insane dictator with nukes either or they will in short order run the world because there are several to choose from incumbent and incipient. We can only build a future worth having by being willing to stand up and take the risk and call their bluff even at the risk of everything we hold dear. Men of small courage and lesser souls would deserve the terrible world their children would inherit.

michaelmrose 4y ago

You are allowed in the sense that police won't come to your door with bracelets. The court of public opinion has and will always be open 24/7 ready to sentence you to your fellow citizens contempt. In this case the contempt is well deserved. One doesn't just "throw stuff out to get the discussion started" regarding an ongoing genocidal rampage complete with rape and torture camps. It's in poor taste. Nobody cares what Elon wants because except interjecting himself uselessly into international politics he is irrelevant.