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Didn’t Musk donate Starlink terminals to aid Ukraine in the war? Seems impossible to do that and also be on Russia’s side.

simlevesque 4y ago
It's all just marketing for him. His ideas for peace are straight out of Putin's wishlist.
- GaylordTuring 4y ago
  It is? Giving up all captured areas except for Crimea (given that a UN lead referendum would result in the other regions staying in Ukraine)? That sounds like a pretty big failure to me.
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    Allowing them to legalize their annexation of Crimea would just encourage doing the same thing all over again in a few years.
    - CamperBob2 4y ago
      Which is exactly what happened.
  - michaelmrose 4y ago
    Russia would NEVER give the residents the ability to actually vote him off the island. The entirety of the win is the immediate PR win he handed them by implying - That the remaining residents even have the legal/moral right to have such an election. - That such an election could possibly be morally conducted with armed men camped on your land and the unburied dead scattered on the landscape without the specter of intimidation. - That such results would be valid given it would be conducted after the Russians drove off or tortured and murdered half the population that didn't agree - That anyone could possible trust the Russians to conduct it no matter what oversight was provided - That they would respect the results if they went their way It re-contextualizes the discussion from an immoral war criminal is slaughtering his neighbor, raping and pillaging their lands, attempting to erase their identity and attempting to cover his tracks with sham elections to somehow the sham elections are a path to peace between warring neighbors if only we conducted them more fairly. They cannot possibly be conducted fairly and Musk's statement was literally the most stupid and offensive thing he has ever said in his life.
  - mzs 4y ago
    It's virtually impossible to have a fair election under occupation or war.
ulrashida 4y ago
Close. The US paid upwards of $2 million to SpaceX to provide the devices (~$1,500 / unit). The idea of them being a donation was typical marketing from Musk.
- starik36 4y ago
  Not exactly. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1577077410863775744?s=20&t=jCcNs8g6wyLb6OAX9U-YhA https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1577077410863775744?s=20... "SpaceX’s out of pocket cost to enable & support Starlink in Ukraine is ~$80M so far. Our support for Russia is $0. Obviously, we are pro Ukraine."
  - yupper32 4y ago
    While that $80m number may be true, his tweet is not a reliable source.
    - starik36 4y ago
      I see. You took it upon yourself to decide who is a liar and who isn't.
      - michaelmrose 4y ago
        Basically anyone who doesn't have a motivation to twist the truth? Like the US government who can actually provide hard proof that they paid for the hardware? Why would we believe Elon in this case?
        starik36 4y ago
        But there isn't proof that he is lying - you deciding whether he lied or not is your judgement call. If you may recall, the initial shipment of Starlinks were sent in response to request by Mykhailo Fedorov - Ukraine's Minister of Digital Transformation. Before US govt got involved. So I would tend to take Musk at his word. https://www.euronews.com/next/2022/02/27/elon-musk-deploys-spacex-s-starlink-internet-satellites-over-ukraine-after-request-from-vi https://www.euronews.com/next/2022/02/27/elon-musk-deploys-s...
iecheruo 4y ago
Is it a donation if the US taxpayer is footing the bill? https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/04/08/us-quietly-paying-millions-send-starlink-terminals-ukraine-contrary-spacexs-claims/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/04/08/us-quietl...
deleted 4y ago
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memish 4y ago
Of course he's not on Russia's side. No serious person truly believes that. "SpaceX’s out of pocket cost to enable & support Starlink in Ukraine is ~$80M so far. Our support for Russia is $0. Obviously, we are pro Ukraine. Trying to retake Crimea will cause massive death, probably fail & risk nuclear war. This would be terrible for Ukraine & Earth." https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1577077410863775744 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1577077410863775744
- dragontamer 4y ago
  Why was he saying that Crimea belongs to Russia? The dude is obviously seeped in pro-Russian propaganda now. I dunno why or how he got to this state, but... Elon made this very clear yesterday.
  - GaylordTuring 4y ago
    He’s really not though. His claims aren’t of a moral nature. They’re pragmatical in terms of what could lead to peace and possibly avoid nuclear warfare that more or less could lead to the end of civilization. If Russia wasn’t a threat, I’m 100% sure he would say that the rest of the world should help in reclaiming Crimea. So I don’t think he’s saying that Crimea belongs to Russia at all.
    - dragontamer 4y ago
      > His claims aren’t of a moral nature. His claims are 100% Kremlin propaganda. No one else was ever claiming the things he said, aside from Russia. The timing of it was especially egregious, as Ukraine made a *HUGE* advancement over the frontlines this past weekend. Pro-russian propaganda coming in exactly as Russia's front line collapses? What? The timing and speech pattern here (ie: the Kremlin-style argument of "Khrushchev’s mistake") suggests _direct_ Russian influence. No one else was saying things like that. No one speaks like that, not here in USA at least. -------- If Elon Musk said this when Ukraine was losing, then maybe you'd have a point. But Elon Musk decided to say this when Ukraine was __WINNING__ on the battlefield.
  - 4y ago
CamperBob2 4y ago
He's basically the Joker at this point. No apparent rhyme or reason to his actions, and no overarching goal. Just chaos. You hate to see it. Or at least, I do. I had an immense amount of respect for Musk based on his work at Tesla and SpaceX, and that respect has basically evaporated now. It's as if he's no longer the same guy at all.
- flatirony 4y ago
  I think it's more likely that he's being exposed than that he's changed.

simlevesque 4y ago

It's all just marketing for him. His ideas for peace are straight out of Putin's wishlist.

GaylordTuring 4y ago
It is? Giving up all captured areas except for Crimea (given that a UN lead referendum would result in the other regions staying in Ukraine)? That sounds like a pretty big failure to me.
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  Allowing them to legalize their annexation of Crimea would just encourage doing the same thing all over again in a few years.
  - CamperBob2 4y ago
    Which is exactly what happened.
- michaelmrose 4y ago
  Russia would NEVER give the residents the ability to actually vote him off the island. The entirety of the win is the immediate PR win he handed them by implying - That the remaining residents even have the legal/moral right to have such an election. - That such an election could possibly be morally conducted with armed men camped on your land and the unburied dead scattered on the landscape without the specter of intimidation. - That such results would be valid given it would be conducted after the Russians drove off or tortured and murdered half the population that didn't agree - That anyone could possible trust the Russians to conduct it no matter what oversight was provided - That they would respect the results if they went their way It re-contextualizes the discussion from an immoral war criminal is slaughtering his neighbor, raping and pillaging their lands, attempting to erase their identity and attempting to cover his tracks with sham elections to somehow the sham elections are a path to peace between warring neighbors if only we conducted them more fairly. They cannot possibly be conducted fairly and Musk's statement was literally the most stupid and offensive thing he has ever said in his life.
- mzs 4y ago
  It's virtually impossible to have a fair election under occupation or war.

ulrashida 4y ago

Close. The US paid upwards of $2 million to SpaceX to provide the devices (~$1,500 / unit). The idea of them being a donation was typical marketing from Musk.

starik36 4y ago
Not exactly. https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1577077410863775744?s=20&t=jCcNs8g6wyLb6OAX9U-YhA https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1577077410863775744?s=20... "SpaceX’s out of pocket cost to enable & support Starlink in Ukraine is ~$80M so far. Our support for Russia is $0. Obviously, we are pro Ukraine."
- yupper32 4y ago
  While that $80m number may be true, his tweet is not a reliable source.
  - starik36 4y ago
    I see. You took it upon yourself to decide who is a liar and who isn't.
    - michaelmrose 4y ago
      Basically anyone who doesn't have a motivation to twist the truth? Like the US government who can actually provide hard proof that they paid for the hardware? Why would we believe Elon in this case?
      - starik36 4y ago
        But there isn't proof that he is lying - you deciding whether he lied or not is your judgement call. If you may recall, the initial shipment of Starlinks were sent in response to request by Mykhailo Fedorov - Ukraine's Minister of Digital Transformation. Before US govt got involved. So I would tend to take Musk at his word. https://www.euronews.com/next/2022/02/27/elon-musk-deploys-spacex-s-starlink-internet-satellites-over-ukraine-after-request-from-vi https://www.euronews.com/next/2022/02/27/elon-musk-deploys-s...

iecheruo 4y ago

Is it a donation if the US taxpayer is footing the bill? https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/04/08/us-quietly-paying-millions-send-starlink-terminals-ukraine-contrary-spacexs-claims/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/04/08/us-quietl...

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

memish 4y ago

Of course he's not on Russia's side. No serious person truly believes that. "SpaceX’s out of pocket cost to enable & support Starlink in Ukraine is ~$80M so far. Our support for Russia is $0. Obviously, we are pro Ukraine. Trying to retake Crimea will cause massive death, probably fail & risk nuclear war. This would be terrible for Ukraine & Earth." https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1577077410863775744 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1577077410863775744

dragontamer 4y ago
Why was he saying that Crimea belongs to Russia? The dude is obviously seeped in pro-Russian propaganda now. I dunno why or how he got to this state, but... Elon made this very clear yesterday.
- GaylordTuring 4y ago
  He’s really not though. His claims aren’t of a moral nature. They’re pragmatical in terms of what could lead to peace and possibly avoid nuclear warfare that more or less could lead to the end of civilization. If Russia wasn’t a threat, I’m 100% sure he would say that the rest of the world should help in reclaiming Crimea. So I don’t think he’s saying that Crimea belongs to Russia at all.
  - dragontamer 4y ago
    > His claims aren’t of a moral nature. His claims are 100% Kremlin propaganda. No one else was ever claiming the things he said, aside from Russia. The timing of it was especially egregious, as Ukraine made a *HUGE* advancement over the frontlines this past weekend. Pro-russian propaganda coming in exactly as Russia's front line collapses? What? The timing and speech pattern here (ie: the Kremlin-style argument of "Khrushchev’s mistake") suggests _direct_ Russian influence. No one else was saying things like that. No one speaks like that, not here in USA at least. -------- If Elon Musk said this when Ukraine was losing, then maybe you'd have a point. But Elon Musk decided to say this when Ukraine was __WINNING__ on the battlefield.
- 4y ago

CamperBob2 4y ago

He's basically the Joker at this point. No apparent rhyme or reason to his actions, and no overarching goal. Just chaos. You hate to see it. Or at least, I do. I had an immense amount of respect for Musk based on his work at Tesla and SpaceX, and that respect has basically evaporated now. It's as if he's no longer the same guy at all.

flatirony 4y ago
I think it's more likely that he's being exposed than that he's changed.