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re-iterating what onion2k said, hard pass on building a company around an esoteric language. enjoy attempting to hire people to work on this. best case you get

by mylons 4y ago

re-iterating what onion2k said, hard pass on building a company around an esoteric language. enjoy attempting to hire people to work on this. best case you get an eager programmer wanting to learn the language. worst case you get zero experienced hires unless you’re a massive success.

haolez 4y ago
The real worst case scenario is facing a competitor that's much faster than you on implementing new features and testing hypothesis. Using an esoteric language might be one of the leverages that this competitor has against your tight mainstream stack.
- Scarbutt 4y ago
  In 2022 thinking that your esoteric language is going to help you implement new features faster than with a mainstream language is just plain language zealotry.
  - haolez 4y ago
    I disagree.
    - mylons 4y ago
      love the substance in your comment
  - JonChesterfield 4y ago
    On the basis that esoteric languages come with fewer libraries and new features largely involve gluing libraries together to make things like other things that already exist?
- mylons 4y ago
  i’ve worked with people like you in the past. they all write books for their language now. none of them correct. it’s almost never the language that holds you back. it’s the organization and it’s priorities. an easy example is instagram and their use of python. they crushed with a language that clojure folx look down on.
capableweb 4y ago
That "best case" seems dishonest at best. How is the best case not "Best case you get awesome programmers with lots of experience and knowledge about what Clojure is all about, being able to ship software better than anyone else" or similar? Clojure has pitfalls for sure, but no need to be dishonest in order to flag them.
cageface 4y ago
I would also argue that the productivity delta between something like Clojure vs Python or Javascript or Kotlin is not as high as it was between Common Lisp vs C++/Java 10-15 years ago. So the payoff for a risky bet is not as high. That said I would love to work in a lisp full time. There's just something appealingly elegant about it.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

by mylons 4y ago

haolez 4y ago

The real worst case scenario is facing a competitor that's much faster than you on implementing new features and testing hypothesis. Using an esoteric language might be one of the leverages that this competitor has against your tight mainstream stack.

Scarbutt 4y ago
In 2022 thinking that your esoteric language is going to help you implement new features faster than with a mainstream language is just plain language zealotry.
- haolez 4y ago
  I disagree.
  - mylons 4y ago
    love the substance in your comment
- JonChesterfield 4y ago
  On the basis that esoteric languages come with fewer libraries and new features largely involve gluing libraries together to make things like other things that already exist?
mylons 4y ago
i’ve worked with people like you in the past. they all write books for their language now. none of them correct. it’s almost never the language that holds you back. it’s the organization and it’s priorities. an easy example is instagram and their use of python. they crushed with a language that clojure folx look down on.

capableweb 4y ago

That "best case" seems dishonest at best. How is the best case not "Best case you get awesome programmers with lots of experience and knowledge about what Clojure is all about, being able to ship software better than anyone else" or similar? Clojure has pitfalls for sure, but no need to be dishonest in order to flag them.

cageface 4y ago

I would also argue that the productivity delta between something like Clojure vs Python or Javascript or Kotlin is not as high as it was between Common Lisp vs C++/Java 10-15 years ago. So the payoff for a risky bet is not as high. That said I would love to work in a lisp full time. There's just something appealingly elegant about it.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]