4 ms·

For what it's worth, I was agreeing with you by posting their standard service pistol. However, I am also quite familiar with firearms, and strongly disagree wi

For what it's worth, I was agreeing with you by posting their standard service pistol. However, I am also quite familiar with firearms, and strongly disagree with your belief that this is "the proper technique," it's just what police are currently (improperly, in my very strong opinion) trained to do.

Alupis 4y ago
I'm not sure what training you've had, and don't care to get into some sort of measurement contest, but I can assure you anything beyond "Introductory" classes/training hammer this into you ad nauseum. The gun only comes out for one reason - that is to kill something that you perceive to pose an immediate danger to you or someone around you. The gun does not come out for funsies - if it's out, someone is getting shot until they're not a threat anymore (which can mean different things depending on the situation). It's not a "mag dump" as some have indicated, it's "fire until there's no more threat, reload and keep firing if there is still a threat". The gun is a tool for killing. It is that simple. The gun comes out, someone is dying. It's that cold. This isn't the movies. People don't get hit once and leave the fight... this is real life.
- shortstuffsushi 4y ago
  As others have responded to you, and like you even said - "fire until there is no further threat" doesn't mean mag dump. However, that is what police do. This is a sign of very poor situational awareness, not "sticking to training." You wonder why others are arguing with you and downvoting you, you're speaking with authority on something, but you're at odds with yourself. You are correct that number of rounds fired is not a good indicator of the "intensity" of a firefight, you are incorrect that this is "normal" or "reasonable" behavior on the part of the police. Continuing to reply to everyone with "it's not a movie, I have training, the rest of you don't" etc doesn't aid your claims, it just makes you sound smug while.. still being wrong.
  - Alupis 4y ago
    I have not seen any officers training to literally "mag dump". We don't know what pistol (if it was even a pistol) was used nor it's magazine capacity, nor if this department allowed accessories like extensions, nor do we know if everyone fired the same amount. So no, nobody "mag dumped" here, and nobody is trained to "mag dump". That's quite a straw man... You are, however, trained to fire until there is no more threat (as repeated over and over). That's exactly what happened here. Turns out in hindsight they got the initial assessment very wrong... that should be the focus of the discussion, not rounds fired. > you're speaking with authority on something No, I just happen to be the only person here with firearms training that is brave enough to burn a bunch of points trying to help uninformed folks focus on what matters (hint, it's not round count).
    - WaxProlix 4y ago
      > No, I just happen to be the only person here with firearms training that is brave enough Very brave of you. I have some (mild, think seriousmode CCW class) training in the area too, and FWIW it doesn't exactly match your description. > trying to help uninformed folks focus on what matters But you're the one who's constantly muddying the waters and turning this into a flame war instead of conversation. Reread the article, then reread this thread. If you come to the conclusion that you're doing something constructive or helpful, rather than that you have ulterior motives or need to seriously improve your communication skills, there's probably no reconciling your POV with anyone else's.
      - Alupis 4y ago
        If you have some training as you claim you do, then you too would realize 107 rounds fired is not unusual or unexpected, given the events of that evening. (FYI not from the article, this is a sidebar conversation about some other event that you may have waded into unknowingly). The only point I raised was 107 rounds fired from 7 or more individuals is not unusual. Folks like to run around with some number of rounds fired as-if it indicates malfeasance - but it really doesn't. That was the only point I was making... everything else is "what-if" noise... Zero judgement was passed on the events themselves, but it seems people want to force you to state an opinion none-the-less.

Alupis 4y ago

I'm not sure what training you've had, and don't care to get into some sort of measurement contest, but I can assure you anything beyond "Introductory" classes/training hammer this into you ad nauseum. The gun only comes out for one reason - that is to kill something that you perceive to pose an immediate danger to you or someone around you. The gun does not come out for funsies - if it's out, someone is getting shot until they're not a threat anymore (which can mean different things depending on the situation). It's not a "mag dump" as some have indicated, it's "fire until there's no more threat, reload and keep firing if there is still a threat". The gun is a tool for killing. It is that simple. The gun comes out, someone is dying. It's that cold. This isn't the movies. People don't get hit once and leave the fight... this is real life.

shortstuffsushi 4y ago
As others have responded to you, and like you even said - "fire until there is no further threat" doesn't mean mag dump. However, that is what police do. This is a sign of very poor situational awareness, not "sticking to training." You wonder why others are arguing with you and downvoting you, you're speaking with authority on something, but you're at odds with yourself. You are correct that number of rounds fired is not a good indicator of the "intensity" of a firefight, you are incorrect that this is "normal" or "reasonable" behavior on the part of the police. Continuing to reply to everyone with "it's not a movie, I have training, the rest of you don't" etc doesn't aid your claims, it just makes you sound smug while.. still being wrong.
- Alupis 4y ago
  I have not seen any officers training to literally "mag dump". We don't know what pistol (if it was even a pistol) was used nor it's magazine capacity, nor if this department allowed accessories like extensions, nor do we know if everyone fired the same amount. So no, nobody "mag dumped" here, and nobody is trained to "mag dump". That's quite a straw man... You are, however, trained to fire until there is no more threat (as repeated over and over). That's exactly what happened here. Turns out in hindsight they got the initial assessment very wrong... that should be the focus of the discussion, not rounds fired. > you're speaking with authority on something No, I just happen to be the only person here with firearms training that is brave enough to burn a bunch of points trying to help uninformed folks focus on what matters (hint, it's not round count).
  - WaxProlix 4y ago
    > No, I just happen to be the only person here with firearms training that is brave enough Very brave of you. I have some (mild, think seriousmode CCW class) training in the area too, and FWIW it doesn't exactly match your description. > trying to help uninformed folks focus on what matters But you're the one who's constantly muddying the waters and turning this into a flame war instead of conversation. Reread the article, then reread this thread. If you come to the conclusion that you're doing something constructive or helpful, rather than that you have ulterior motives or need to seriously improve your communication skills, there's probably no reconciling your POV with anyone else's.
    - Alupis 4y ago
      If you have some training as you claim you do, then you too would realize 107 rounds fired is not unusual or unexpected, given the events of that evening. (FYI not from the article, this is a sidebar conversation about some other event that you may have waded into unknowingly). The only point I raised was 107 rounds fired from 7 or more individuals is not unusual. Folks like to run around with some number of rounds fired as-if it indicates malfeasance - but it really doesn't. That was the only point I was making... everything else is "what-if" noise... Zero judgement was passed on the events themselves, but it seems people want to force you to state an opinion none-the-less.