10 ms·

He isn't breaking convention, he's just breaking the law. That law exists for a good reason - because being stuck in a confined space with a bunch of salesmen i

by comicjk 15y ago

He isn't breaking convention, he's just breaking the law. That law exists for a good reason - because being stuck in a confined space with a bunch of salesmen is intolerable. Does your tech startup break the law? If so, please call your local precinct and wait for the police to arrive.

joelrunyon 15y ago
How many startups are currently facing legal action? Do you really want to know the answer to this question? Tons of startups are breaking the law either intentionally or purposely trying to disrupt it. I think we've established long ago that something being "legal" or "illegal" doesn't necessarily mean it's "right" or "wrong."
- rhizome 15y ago
  Tons of startups are breaking the law either intentionally I challenge you to supply three examples.
  - a3camero 15y ago
    I don't know about "breaking the law intentionally" but here are some examples of things startups have done that other people have thought were illegal. In some of the cases people have thought that so strongly that they've filed lawsuits. Groupon selling coupons for alcohol in Massachusetts: http://articles.boston.com/2011-03-18/business/29351154_1_groupon-spokeswoman-groupon-com-daily-deal-website http://articles.boston.com/2011-03-18/business/29351154_1_gr... (here are some other suits: http://www.portfolio.com/business-news/2011/03/29/groupon-faces-multiple-lawsuits-over-daily-deal-offers-advertising/ http://www.portfolio.com/business-news/2011/03/29/groupon-fa...) Facebook not living up to privacy promises: http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20111129-710865.html http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20111129-710865.html YouTube/Google not paying royalties/failing to control copyright infringement: http://paidcontent.org/article/419-music-publishers-settle-with-youtube-as-other-defendants-fight-on/ http://paidcontent.org/article/419-music-publishers-settle-w... AirBNB's operations in New York: http://www.betabeat.com/2011/05/31/airbnb-takes-manhattan-with-2k-bookings-a-night-but-many-listings-may-be-illegal/ http://www.betabeat.com/2011/05/31/airbnb-takes-manhattan-wi...
    - untog 15y ago
      If I remember correctly, Uber is also facing legal action about the legality of their car service.
      - jrockway 15y ago
        Somewhat bullshit legal action, though. All they need to do is move their company out of San Francisco and then the City can't do anything about it. Cars for people in California can arranged from anywhere in the world with phone lines and intarwebs, and I doubt the City of San Francisco has much jurisdiction over people in, say, Russia.
    - vacri 15y ago
      Facebook is a startup?
      - dhs 15y ago
        Isn't it one until at least the first major exit event happens, like, until an IPO, or something?
  - rokhayakebe 15y ago
    Facebook, CareerIQ, and I am sure you can find a few more.
  - joelrunyon 15y ago
    There was a big discussion a week or so back about Dwolla's operations not being legal in California.
  - noomerikal 15y ago
    Straight from wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zynga http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zynga Scam ads Through 2009 Zynga made money from lead generation advertising schemes, whereby game participants would earn game points by signing up for featured credit cards or video-rental services. These were criticized as being less cost-effective than simply buying game points, and in some cases, being outright scams that would download unwanted software or unwittingly sign up for a recurring subscription.[38] One ad signed up players for subscriptions to expensive and unwanted text-messaging services.[39] On October 31, 2009, Michael Arrington of TechCrunch said that Zynga intentionally worked with scam advertisers, and that lead generation made up a third of Zynga's revenue.[64] Arrington also alleged that Facebook was complicit in this.[65] On November 2, 2009, CEO Mark Pincus announced a reform in its offers: Tatto Media, a major offer provider that enrolled users into recurring cell phone subscriptions, would be banned, all mobile offers would be removed, and offer providers would be required to pre-screen offers.[66] Arrington continued to question Pincus' role in the scams, republishing a video of a speech by Pincus.[67] In the speech, Pincus said: "So I funded [Zynga] myself but I did every horrible thing in the book to, just to get revenues right away. I mean we gave our users poker chips if they downloaded this Zwinky toolbar which was like, I don't know, I downloaded it once and couldn’t get rid of it. laughs We did anything possible just to just get revenues so that we could grow and be a real business." —Mark Pincus, Speech from Startup@Berkeley In response, Pincus noted that after offering the Zwinky toolbar, his team of ten decided to remove it since it was a "painful experience".[68] Several days after the Techcrunch story, Zynga's most recent Facebook game FishVille, was temporarily taken offline by Facebook on claim of advertising violations. According to Zynga, Fishville had 875,000 users within two days of launch. A release from Facebook on its reasons for taking the game offline read that "FishVille will remain suspended until Facebook is satisfied that Zynga demonstrates compliance with Facebook restrictions – as well as Zynga’s own restrictions – on the ads it offers users."[69] FishVille was later un-suspended at midnight November 9–10.[70] Several suits were filed against Zynga for promoting such offers,[71][72] including the class-action lawsuit Swift v. Zynga in the United States District Court for the Northern District of California for violation of the Unfair competition law and the Consumers Legal Remedies Act, after the lead plaintiff's credit card was billed more than $200 for offers she completed to receive YoVille currency.[73][74][75] Pincus later said that he had been too eager to increase company revenues through advertising, and that operating in reactive mode by taking down ads only after receiving complaints had not worked. The company removed all ads for a time, relying only on direct purchase of game currency, then began reintroducing third party ads only after they had been screened.[38]
  - barik 15y ago
    Almost all startups, small companies, and even large companies that I've worked at have had some level of software piracy in their organization. Of course, I could just be unlucky in where I've worked, but it's always been rationalized away in some capacity ("once we start making money, we'll buy legitimate licenses").
- kordless 15y ago
  Tons of startups are breaking the law? I find that highly unlikely, mostly due to the fact I spend at least an hour a week talking to my attorneys about EVERYTHING we do and making sure it's all above board and legally covered. While I can't speak for all the other startups out there, I can say without a doubt that mine hasn't broken any laws.
  - bd_at_rivenhill 15y ago
    I doubt that it's possible for you or your attorneys to understand every single law that applies to your situation, so you are almost certainly breaking some law or regulation somewhere. The difference between you and this guy is that he probably knows that he's breaking the law, but you don't.
    - georgieporgie 15y ago
      This guy's sole function as a businessman is explicitly illegal. You're comparing that with (usually) accidental infringement on complicated and virtually unknowable laws.
      - bd_at_rivenhill 15y ago
        I'd estimate that about 1/8 to 1/4 of the purpose of the laws he's breaking is to protect commuters from harassment and the remainder is to protect the profits of businesses like the kiosks that sell candy, drinks, and newspapers on some of the platforms. Basically, I find those laws to be more of a bug than a feature.
        georgieporgie 15y ago
        I disagree. Based upon other commenters' experience with this exact fellow, he often turns abusive to people who don't want to buy what he's offering. When it comes to public transit, strict limitations are really nice for the masses. Riding trains in Japan, where nobody chats on their cellphone next to you, buskers don't assault your ears, and vendors are limited, efficient, and polite, is a wonderful thing.
jdietrich 15y ago
If your startup develops, sells or uses software, it is undoubtedly breaching someone's patents. Cardinal Richelieu needed six lines to hang a man; A good patent troll will hang a company in five lines of code.

by comicjk 15y ago

joelrunyon 15y ago

How many startups are currently facing legal action? Do you really want to know the answer to this question? Tons of startups are breaking the law either intentionally or purposely trying to disrupt it. I think we've established long ago that something being "legal" or "illegal" doesn't necessarily mean it's "right" or "wrong."

rhizome 15y ago
Tons of startups are breaking the law either intentionally I challenge you to supply three examples.
- a3camero 15y ago
  I don't know about "breaking the law intentionally" but here are some examples of things startups have done that other people have thought were illegal. In some of the cases people have thought that so strongly that they've filed lawsuits. Groupon selling coupons for alcohol in Massachusetts: http://articles.boston.com/2011-03-18/business/29351154_1_groupon-spokeswoman-groupon-com-daily-deal-website http://articles.boston.com/2011-03-18/business/29351154_1_gr... (here are some other suits: http://www.portfolio.com/business-news/2011/03/29/groupon-faces-multiple-lawsuits-over-daily-deal-offers-advertising/ http://www.portfolio.com/business-news/2011/03/29/groupon-fa...) Facebook not living up to privacy promises: http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20111129-710865.html http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20111129-710865.html YouTube/Google not paying royalties/failing to control copyright infringement: http://paidcontent.org/article/419-music-publishers-settle-with-youtube-as-other-defendants-fight-on/ http://paidcontent.org/article/419-music-publishers-settle-w... AirBNB's operations in New York: http://www.betabeat.com/2011/05/31/airbnb-takes-manhattan-with-2k-bookings-a-night-but-many-listings-may-be-illegal/ http://www.betabeat.com/2011/05/31/airbnb-takes-manhattan-wi...
  - untog 15y ago
    If I remember correctly, Uber is also facing legal action about the legality of their car service.
    - jrockway 15y ago
      Somewhat bullshit legal action, though. All they need to do is move their company out of San Francisco and then the City can't do anything about it. Cars for people in California can arranged from anywhere in the world with phone lines and intarwebs, and I doubt the City of San Francisco has much jurisdiction over people in, say, Russia.
  - vacri 15y ago
    Facebook is a startup?
    - dhs 15y ago
      Isn't it one until at least the first major exit event happens, like, until an IPO, or something?
- rokhayakebe 15y ago
  Facebook, CareerIQ, and I am sure you can find a few more.
- joelrunyon 15y ago
  There was a big discussion a week or so back about Dwolla's operations not being legal in California.
- noomerikal 15y ago
  Straight from wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zynga http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zynga Scam ads Through 2009 Zynga made money from lead generation advertising schemes, whereby game participants would earn game points by signing up for featured credit cards or video-rental services. These were criticized as being less cost-effective than simply buying game points, and in some cases, being outright scams that would download unwanted software or unwittingly sign up for a recurring subscription.[38] One ad signed up players for subscriptions to expensive and unwanted text-messaging services.[39] On October 31, 2009, Michael Arrington of TechCrunch said that Zynga intentionally worked with scam advertisers, and that lead generation made up a third of Zynga's revenue.[64] Arrington also alleged that Facebook was complicit in this.[65] On November 2, 2009, CEO Mark Pincus announced a reform in its offers: Tatto Media, a major offer provider that enrolled users into recurring cell phone subscriptions, would be banned, all mobile offers would be removed, and offer providers would be required to pre-screen offers.[66] Arrington continued to question Pincus' role in the scams, republishing a video of a speech by Pincus.[67] In the speech, Pincus said: "So I funded [Zynga] myself but I did every horrible thing in the book to, just to get revenues right away. I mean we gave our users poker chips if they downloaded this Zwinky toolbar which was like, I don't know, I downloaded it once and couldn’t get rid of it. laughs We did anything possible just to just get revenues so that we could grow and be a real business." —Mark Pincus, Speech from Startup@Berkeley In response, Pincus noted that after offering the Zwinky toolbar, his team of ten decided to remove it since it was a "painful experience".[68] Several days after the Techcrunch story, Zynga's most recent Facebook game FishVille, was temporarily taken offline by Facebook on claim of advertising violations. According to Zynga, Fishville had 875,000 users within two days of launch. A release from Facebook on its reasons for taking the game offline read that "FishVille will remain suspended until Facebook is satisfied that Zynga demonstrates compliance with Facebook restrictions – as well as Zynga’s own restrictions – on the ads it offers users."[69] FishVille was later un-suspended at midnight November 9–10.[70] Several suits were filed against Zynga for promoting such offers,[71][72] including the class-action lawsuit Swift v. Zynga in the United States District Court for the Northern District of California for violation of the Unfair competition law and the Consumers Legal Remedies Act, after the lead plaintiff's credit card was billed more than $200 for offers she completed to receive YoVille currency.[73][74][75] Pincus later said that he had been too eager to increase company revenues through advertising, and that operating in reactive mode by taking down ads only after receiving complaints had not worked. The company removed all ads for a time, relying only on direct purchase of game currency, then began reintroducing third party ads only after they had been screened.[38]
- barik 15y ago
  Almost all startups, small companies, and even large companies that I've worked at have had some level of software piracy in their organization. Of course, I could just be unlucky in where I've worked, but it's always been rationalized away in some capacity ("once we start making money, we'll buy legitimate licenses").
kordless 15y ago
Tons of startups are breaking the law? I find that highly unlikely, mostly due to the fact I spend at least an hour a week talking to my attorneys about EVERYTHING we do and making sure it's all above board and legally covered. While I can't speak for all the other startups out there, I can say without a doubt that mine hasn't broken any laws.
- bd_at_rivenhill 15y ago
  I doubt that it's possible for you or your attorneys to understand every single law that applies to your situation, so you are almost certainly breaking some law or regulation somewhere. The difference between you and this guy is that he probably knows that he's breaking the law, but you don't.
  - georgieporgie 15y ago
    This guy's sole function as a businessman is explicitly illegal. You're comparing that with (usually) accidental infringement on complicated and virtually unknowable laws.
    - bd_at_rivenhill 15y ago
      I'd estimate that about 1/8 to 1/4 of the purpose of the laws he's breaking is to protect commuters from harassment and the remainder is to protect the profits of businesses like the kiosks that sell candy, drinks, and newspapers on some of the platforms. Basically, I find those laws to be more of a bug than a feature.
      - georgieporgie 15y ago
        I disagree. Based upon other commenters' experience with this exact fellow, he often turns abusive to people who don't want to buy what he's offering. When it comes to public transit, strict limitations are really nice for the masses. Riding trains in Japan, where nobody chats on their cellphone next to you, buskers don't assault your ears, and vendors are limited, efficient, and polite, is a wonderful thing.

jdietrich 15y ago

If your startup develops, sells or uses software, it is undoubtedly breaching someone's patents. Cardinal Richelieu needed six lines to hang a man; A good patent troll will hang a company in five lines of code.