6 ms·

Both of my parents are highly educated statisticians and the sketchy things they'll believe never fails to amaze me. A lot of it seems to be innate trust of (f

by Brybry 4y ago

Both of my parents are highly educated statisticians and the sketchy things they'll believe never fails to amaze me. A lot of it seems to be innate trust of (false) authority figures: the MDs, naturopaths, and authors who shill this stuff.

themitigating 4y ago
The majority of MDs don't believe in homeopathic medicine. Naturopaths are authority figures?
- lotsofpulp 4y ago
  They have “doctoral” degrees, they call themselves “Dr”, and can even prescribe in Washington state. Absolutely mind boggling.
  - carrotcarrot 4y ago
    They go through the same work as non naturopath Made in addition to their naturopathic work. Whycant you allow people who want their care to go to them? They're not misleading people, theyre offering an alternative.
    - lotsofpulp 4y ago
      There is no alternative to clinical trials. Either a medicine (or treatment) has evidence behind it, or it does not. And whatever education or tests naturopaths do are not comparable to what MDs have to do.
    - themitigating 4y ago
      If I had a medicial degree, opened a clinic to treat patients for cancer, and the medicine I used had no emperical evidence that it works (meaning some probability of success determined used a properly done study) should that be acceptable? Even if I told patients I think thought the treatment would work but it's not FDA approved.
  - sigstoat 4y ago
    > can even prescribe in Washington state how does that work? the DEA controls the ability to prescribe, and they're federal.
    - lotsofpulp 4y ago
      I do not know. I presume DEA tracks prescriptions, but does not decide who can and cannot prescribe. https://centerforinquiry.org/news/washington-bill-would-expand-naturopathic-prescription-authority/ https://centerforinquiry.org/news/washington-bill-would-expa... https://app.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=246-836-210 https://app.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=246-836-210
- carrotcarrot 4y ago
  In Europe naturopathy is more common. I would say MDs en masse hold similar views to the general populace. Most MDs aren't reading research papers, they're simply repeating what they get told in school and the attitudes they observe around different treatments. I'm not trying to say this is bad necessarily but it is not a very scientific or rigorous way to do things. Most MDs think fast on their feet and have a blast knowledge of treatment for different things but they don't have a lot of experience working on nuance.
  - themitigating 4y ago
    The science is the research paper and you might say "what if the numbers were fudged" I doubt a doctor is going to figure that out just reading it. Besides emergency room doctors, I don't think they have to think fast.
carrotcarrot 4y ago
You have an innate trust in the pharmaceutical industry. . your parents are statisticians. They know how those studies get made. The fact that they are highly educated statisticians and disagree with you may be a signal rather than a fluke
- woodruffw 4y ago
  The person you're responding to didn't state any degree of trust in the pharmaceutical industry, only distrust in a separate and significantly less regulated industry.
- themitigating 4y ago
  He never said they read those studies or why they believe in it
- lalaland1125 4y ago
  Do you have any citations for pharmaceutical trials being ineffective or frequently incorrect? You are right that the industry is highly untrustworthy, but that's exactly why the FDA process is so highly regulated to control for conflicts of interest.
  - yonaguska 4y ago
    Remdisiver? Aduhelm? Brilinta? AZT? https://www.science.org/content/article/hidden-conflicts-pharma-payments-fda-advisers-after-drug-approvals-spark-ethical https://www.science.org/content/article/hidden-conflicts-pha... https://www.milbank.org/quarterly/articles/revisiting-financial-conflicts-of-interest-in-fda-advisory-committees/ https://www.milbank.org/quarterly/articles/revisiting-financ... Regulation without oversight and action is meaningless.
    - richbell 4y ago
      Or, tangentially, atrazine. https://youtu.be/i5uSbp0YDhc https://youtu.be/i5uSbp0YDhc
midoridensha 4y ago
Yep, write some authoritative-sounding and nice-looking book promoting some kind of bunk and a lot of people will believe it without question.

by Brybry 4y ago

themitigating 4y ago

The majority of MDs don't believe in homeopathic medicine. Naturopaths are authority figures?

lotsofpulp 4y ago
They have “doctoral” degrees, they call themselves “Dr”, and can even prescribe in Washington state. Absolutely mind boggling.
- carrotcarrot 4y ago
  They go through the same work as non naturopath Made in addition to their naturopathic work. Whycant you allow people who want their care to go to them? They're not misleading people, theyre offering an alternative.
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    There is no alternative to clinical trials. Either a medicine (or treatment) has evidence behind it, or it does not. And whatever education or tests naturopaths do are not comparable to what MDs have to do.
  - themitigating 4y ago
    If I had a medicial degree, opened a clinic to treat patients for cancer, and the medicine I used had no emperical evidence that it works (meaning some probability of success determined used a properly done study) should that be acceptable? Even if I told patients I think thought the treatment would work but it's not FDA approved.
- sigstoat 4y ago
  > can even prescribe in Washington state how does that work? the DEA controls the ability to prescribe, and they're federal.
  - lotsofpulp 4y ago
    I do not know. I presume DEA tracks prescriptions, but does not decide who can and cannot prescribe. https://centerforinquiry.org/news/washington-bill-would-expand-naturopathic-prescription-authority/ https://centerforinquiry.org/news/washington-bill-would-expa... https://app.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=246-836-210 https://app.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=246-836-210
carrotcarrot 4y ago
In Europe naturopathy is more common. I would say MDs en masse hold similar views to the general populace. Most MDs aren't reading research papers, they're simply repeating what they get told in school and the attitudes they observe around different treatments. I'm not trying to say this is bad necessarily but it is not a very scientific or rigorous way to do things. Most MDs think fast on their feet and have a blast knowledge of treatment for different things but they don't have a lot of experience working on nuance.
- themitigating 4y ago
  The science is the research paper and you might say "what if the numbers were fudged" I doubt a doctor is going to figure that out just reading it. Besides emergency room doctors, I don't think they have to think fast.

carrotcarrot 4y ago

You have an innate trust in the pharmaceutical industry. . your parents are statisticians. They know how those studies get made. The fact that they are highly educated statisticians and disagree with you may be a signal rather than a fluke

woodruffw 4y ago
The person you're responding to didn't state any degree of trust in the pharmaceutical industry, only distrust in a separate and significantly less regulated industry.
themitigating 4y ago
He never said they read those studies or why they believe in it
lalaland1125 4y ago
Do you have any citations for pharmaceutical trials being ineffective or frequently incorrect? You are right that the industry is highly untrustworthy, but that's exactly why the FDA process is so highly regulated to control for conflicts of interest.
- yonaguska 4y ago
  Remdisiver? Aduhelm? Brilinta? AZT? https://www.science.org/content/article/hidden-conflicts-pharma-payments-fda-advisers-after-drug-approvals-spark-ethical https://www.science.org/content/article/hidden-conflicts-pha... https://www.milbank.org/quarterly/articles/revisiting-financial-conflicts-of-interest-in-fda-advisory-committees/ https://www.milbank.org/quarterly/articles/revisiting-financ... Regulation without oversight and action is meaningless.
  - richbell 4y ago
    Or, tangentially, atrazine. https://youtu.be/i5uSbp0YDhc https://youtu.be/i5uSbp0YDhc

midoridensha 4y ago

Yep, write some authoritative-sounding and nice-looking book promoting some kind of bunk and a lot of people will believe it without question.