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I've tried to influence eCommerce to have a little bit less grift where I have influence. You can absolutely have a solid shopping website without the newslette

by ehnto 4y ago

I've tried to influence eCommerce to have a little bit less grift where I have influence. You can absolutely have a solid shopping website without the newsletter signups, re-targeting and tracking, sneaky cart items and whatnot. Commerce is a core part of our society, and it doesn't have to be a grift just because it's online. But it's a tough, tough sell. For a business owner who sees the internet as just a tool their business uses, the state of the internet isn't their concern. It can even feel a bit like a black box to some people, with online customers being about as sentient as NPCs in their minds. I once had a client who was sending an email list marketing emails -twice a day-. Every time he did it, he saw a handful of sales, so he would just do it again, get a handful more. How people felt about the emails didn't even cross his mind.

duxup 4y ago
And in the end... it is their site to be horrible with if they want. That's the internet, that freedom includes a lot of people being free to do what they want with their site. It was that way in the "good old days" too. Just that then eCommerce and other tools were not as available. Often in other discussions where I hear folks bemoan how "not everything has to be an app". I agree, but it's also rando company who paid for their site, their app... to be an app. They're really not interested in the rando guy's opinion on how his site should be devolved who isn't buying from him anyway. I do what I can to shepherd people I work with away from annoying things, but in the end it is their site.
jaclaz 4y ago
If only I could convince web shops (and their web connections) that I buy every six months or so a box of batteries (for hearing aids) since a few years and that I would actually appreciate to receive a sort of periodical reminder for them, but that I do not need (hopefully) too soon another TV set and washer (that I just bought), it would be a little step in the right direction.
- dspillett 4y ago
  You'll never convince them of that. Or if you do it'll just change their tack from “we think you might want X, have a look at our X” to “we hear you don't want X, but let us tell you about our X and see if we can't change your mind”.
  - thewebcount 4y ago
    Oh man, this reminds me of a conversation I had with a friend: Me: How was your weekend? Her: Really annoying. I want out to the neighborhood bar with my girlfriend and this guy kept hitting on me. Me: Did you tell him that the girl you were with is your girlfriend and that you're not interested in guys? Her: Oh hell no! If I do that, then it becomes a challenge for them and they want to prove to me they can convert me to being straight. Me: ... I mean has this ever worked in the history of humanity?
    - dspillett 4y ago
      That sounds like someone who's sexual experience is mostly (or entirely) watching porn, a world where what two lesbians really want is a random bloke to join in and any claiming otherwise are in denile so he is trying to help them by pestering them…
ryandrake 4y ago
> I once had a client who was sending an email list marketing emails -twice a day-. Every time he did it, he saw a handful of sales, so he would just do it again, get a handful more. How people felt about the emails didn't even cross his mind. I [briefly] worked with an entrepreneur like your client. It was all about collecting his leads and getting a fraction of them to pay. To him, the Internet was nothing but a "channel" full of human wallets that you suck money through. He even had all these physical euphemisms he used to describe his actions against his customers. We'll hit them with a popup and then convert them. Our backend will blast them with E-mail marketing and harvest some more through our partners. Oh, no! Regulation! I guess we need to consent them now so we can blast them more and hit them with another newsletter. Same "the Internet is full of NPCs to exploit" mindset. I didn't last and felt like I needed a week-long bleach shower after parting ways.
- didgetmaster 4y ago
  It is the same mentality that the robocallers use. Call and annoy a million people with your computer program in hopes of getting a handful to fall for your overpriced offering (assuming of course that the whole product or service isn't just a scam).
  - asdff 4y ago
    It's not a hope though, its a guarantee they will gather some easily scammed people with enough coverage. Some people are not all there perhaps and fall victim to these scams all the time. Those Nigerian prince emails that started perhaps 30 years ago wouldn't continue to be sent today, if they didn't work for a sliver of the population they routinely victimize.

by ehnto 4y ago

duxup 4y ago

And in the end... it is their site to be horrible with if they want. That's the internet, that freedom includes a lot of people being free to do what they want with their site. It was that way in the "good old days" too. Just that then eCommerce and other tools were not as available. Often in other discussions where I hear folks bemoan how "not everything has to be an app". I agree, but it's also rando company who paid for their site, their app... to be an app. They're really not interested in the rando guy's opinion on how his site should be devolved who isn't buying from him anyway. I do what I can to shepherd people I work with away from annoying things, but in the end it is their site.

jaclaz 4y ago

If only I could convince web shops (and their web connections) that I buy every six months or so a box of batteries (for hearing aids) since a few years and that I would actually appreciate to receive a sort of periodical reminder for them, but that I do not need (hopefully) too soon another TV set and washer (that I just bought), it would be a little step in the right direction.

dspillett 4y ago
You'll never convince them of that. Or if you do it'll just change their tack from “we think you might want X, have a look at our X” to “we hear you don't want X, but let us tell you about our X and see if we can't change your mind”.
- thewebcount 4y ago
  Oh man, this reminds me of a conversation I had with a friend: Me: How was your weekend? Her: Really annoying. I want out to the neighborhood bar with my girlfriend and this guy kept hitting on me. Me: Did you tell him that the girl you were with is your girlfriend and that you're not interested in guys? Her: Oh hell no! If I do that, then it becomes a challenge for them and they want to prove to me they can convert me to being straight. Me: ... I mean has this ever worked in the history of humanity?
  - dspillett 4y ago
    That sounds like someone who's sexual experience is mostly (or entirely) watching porn, a world where what two lesbians really want is a random bloke to join in and any claiming otherwise are in denile so he is trying to help them by pestering them…

ryandrake 4y ago

> I once had a client who was sending an email list marketing emails -twice a day-. Every time he did it, he saw a handful of sales, so he would just do it again, get a handful more. How people felt about the emails didn't even cross his mind. I [briefly] worked with an entrepreneur like your client. It was all about collecting his leads and getting a fraction of them to pay. To him, the Internet was nothing but a "channel" full of human wallets that you suck money through. He even had all these physical euphemisms he used to describe his actions against his customers. We'll hit them with a popup and then convert them. Our backend will blast them with E-mail marketing and harvest some more through our partners. Oh, no! Regulation! I guess we need to consent them now so we can blast them more and hit them with another newsletter. Same "the Internet is full of NPCs to exploit" mindset. I didn't last and felt like I needed a week-long bleach shower after parting ways.

didgetmaster 4y ago
It is the same mentality that the robocallers use. Call and annoy a million people with your computer program in hopes of getting a handful to fall for your overpriced offering (assuming of course that the whole product or service isn't just a scam).
- asdff 4y ago
  It's not a hope though, its a guarantee they will gather some easily scammed people with enough coverage. Some people are not all there perhaps and fall victim to these scams all the time. Those Nigerian prince emails that started perhaps 30 years ago wouldn't continue to be sent today, if they didn't work for a sliver of the population they routinely victimize.