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Why are you assuming that people will live in poverty if we address historical injustices? I’ve addressed this elsewhere but if that were to occur we would have

Why are you assuming that people will live in poverty if we address historical injustices? I’ve addressed this elsewhere but if that were to occur we would have failed at righting these wrongs and invest even more resources to correct this wrong if we had done it correctly the first time. Poverty in America is a governmental failure, and in some cases is intentional (racism is behind the intentional subjugation of these people, see the Nixon tapes as one example) or the result of bad governance and a political process corrupted by greedy people and those driven by hate or delusions to deny reality. I don’t think you understand what rehabilitation entails, America, as a general rule, does not facilitate rehabilitation so it is outside our cultural knowledge. Generally speaking this rehabilitation in practice looks like restorative Justice. Punitive systems lead to worse societal outcomes. Undertaking a restorative Justice project for victims of American subjugation would require actions like paying restitution, expunging criminal records, drawing the architects and agents of these systems of repression under charges for their crimes, returning land stolen from indigenous peoples, etc. This is not the gotcha you think it is, and if you’re going to refer to a small minority of a demographic you should name them so it doesn’t seem like you’re moving the goalposts when I take you at your words. Police brutality is not a subject up for debate, this term refers to police using force in excess of what they were trained to do. A severe problem in police departments across the country fostered by a toxic culture and poor oversight. What Nigerian or any Americans think about it is a pointless exercise. Either we hold violent criminals to account or we don’t. In America some violent criminals are excessively punished, others are not punished at all and instead celebrated for mercilessly assaulting the right people. These are systemic failures. enforced victim hood mentality is a racist dog whistle and I’m not going to engage with you further if you can’t help but use hateful language. This article could be helpful in your understanding, however you will need to do the work of relating their examples to America and considering the adjustments to your outlook needed to drop the dog whistles and underlying prejudices. https://ilizwi.co.za/on-victimhood/ https://ilizwi.co.za/on-victimhood/

hbrn 4y ago
> if that were to occur we would have failed at righting these wrongs and invest even more resources to correct this wrong Essentially what you're saying is: if we try policy X and it doesn't work, we need to try even harder. Rinse and repeat. This is a religious mindset. You know perfectly well that most of your described actions will never happen. And that is exactly why you put them on your list: it protects you from the evidence that your policy doesn't work. When it fails, you can always claim that we didn't do enough. > enforced victim hood mentality is a racist dog whistle Back at you. Your messages reek of White Savior complex.
- Red_Leaves_Flyy 4y ago
  Repeatedly failing to solve a problem is not religious, it is perseverance. Trying the same over and over against is stupidity and insanity. You don’t seem to understand the fundamental reality that it is harder and more expensive to fix social problems than to do things fairly the first time. Half measures create more problems. You’re ascribing motivations to me when you don’t understand the definitions of the words you use. I don’t want to make you feel bad, but you might be wise to look up some things before you speak about them. White savior complex is used to describe people who try and solve problems for people they pity. I suspect you may treat empathy and sympathy as synonymsthey are not. I’m not trying to solve any problems for any groups I’m not part of. What I am is an ally who strives to understand the realities experienced by marginalized groups and I am willing to adjust my perspective toincorporate new (to me) information. I recognize that America only has democratic freedom for rich white men and that in order to make a freer society for all there need to be systemic changes and accountability for the consequences of this power structure must be had. By learning about the experiences of marginalized people I can incorporate their views into my mine and can in solidarity for the solutions these people demand.
  - LawTalkingGuy 4y ago
    > White savior complex is used to describe people who try and solve problems for people they pity. > I’m not trying to solve any problems for any groups I’m not part of. What I am is an ally who strives to understand the realities experienced by marginalized groups and I am willing ... A large part of the problem is calling it a racial problem. You're declaring yourself an ally to a racial group which means that the problem then has to be universal amongst your concept of that racial group. If a black person testifies that this isn't a universal race-based problem they aren't listened to (as tautological proof of their statement) but instead lambasted as having internalized white-supremacy or whatever. Also, 'ally' is a pretentious term in this context. Ally generally means peers who support each other not a paternalistic protector but BLM showed that this isn't how it was being used in a social justice setting. There's a video from Portland during BLM of a black resident trying to talk to a black officer and a white Antifa runs between and starts shrieking at them because it would destroy the narrative if we could simply discuss our problems calmly. It quickly starts to look like using marginalized people as props in a fight against your political enemies more than actually trying to help them.

hbrn 4y ago

> if that were to occur we would have failed at righting these wrongs and invest even more resources to correct this wrong Essentially what you're saying is: if we try policy X and it doesn't work, we need to try even harder. Rinse and repeat. This is a religious mindset. You know perfectly well that most of your described actions will never happen. And that is exactly why you put them on your list: it protects you from the evidence that your policy doesn't work. When it fails, you can always claim that we didn't do enough. > enforced victim hood mentality is a racist dog whistle Back at you. Your messages reek of White Savior complex.

Red_Leaves_Flyy 4y ago
Repeatedly failing to solve a problem is not religious, it is perseverance. Trying the same over and over against is stupidity and insanity. You don’t seem to understand the fundamental reality that it is harder and more expensive to fix social problems than to do things fairly the first time. Half measures create more problems. You’re ascribing motivations to me when you don’t understand the definitions of the words you use. I don’t want to make you feel bad, but you might be wise to look up some things before you speak about them. White savior complex is used to describe people who try and solve problems for people they pity. I suspect you may treat empathy and sympathy as synonymsthey are not. I’m not trying to solve any problems for any groups I’m not part of. What I am is an ally who strives to understand the realities experienced by marginalized groups and I am willing to adjust my perspective toincorporate new (to me) information. I recognize that America only has democratic freedom for rich white men and that in order to make a freer society for all there need to be systemic changes and accountability for the consequences of this power structure must be had. By learning about the experiences of marginalized people I can incorporate their views into my mine and can in solidarity for the solutions these people demand.
- LawTalkingGuy 4y ago
  > White savior complex is used to describe people who try and solve problems for people they pity. > I’m not trying to solve any problems for any groups I’m not part of. What I am is an ally who strives to understand the realities experienced by marginalized groups and I am willing ... A large part of the problem is calling it a racial problem. You're declaring yourself an ally to a racial group which means that the problem then has to be universal amongst your concept of that racial group. If a black person testifies that this isn't a universal race-based problem they aren't listened to (as tautological proof of their statement) but instead lambasted as having internalized white-supremacy or whatever. Also, 'ally' is a pretentious term in this context. Ally generally means peers who support each other not a paternalistic protector but BLM showed that this isn't how it was being used in a social justice setting. There's a video from Portland during BLM of a black resident trying to talk to a black officer and a white Antifa runs between and starts shrieking at them because it would destroy the narrative if we could simply discuss our problems calmly. It quickly starts to look like using marginalized people as props in a fight against your political enemies more than actually trying to help them.