5 ms·

There is no reason the EU can't upgrade to a new standard, or the USB consortium can't create a backward compatible upgrade. My USB 1.0 keyboard from long ago

There is no reason the EU can't upgrade to a new standard, or the USB consortium can't create a backward compatible upgrade. My USB 1.0 keyboard from long ago still works, BTW. Meanwhile, I have a box full of chargers for all kinds of old stuff. Replacing them all with 1 standard is great. And USB is doing just that, not only for cell phones but for all kinds of gadgets. Even if I only require an USB micro and an USB C charger, that's a ton of chargers not in my house, and a ton of time not hunting around for the right one. The main problem here is Apple. The EU went to all cellphone makers and told them to either agree to a standard voluntarily, or the EU would decide from them. This kind of process is quite normal for technology decisions in europe, BTW. Most manufacturers agreed on an USB variant( might have been micro at the time, don't know if C already existed ). Apple refused to join the club or come with an other acceptable proposal. If a kid refuses to play along, the adults have to force the situation. The kid might not like the result and whine a bit afterwards. What surprises me is that it took so many years before this happens.

roenxi 4y ago
> This kind of process is quite normal for technology decisions in europe, BTW. Europe is technologically backwards. They got destroyed by Shenzhen and Silicon Valley because their bureaucrats keep rolling in with this sort of idiocy. They feel a need to bring this backseat design process because their local companies aren't up to the challenge of competing with more-nimble American megacorporations. Their phone company (Nokia) was the market leader until they got wrecked by an inability to innovate. This policy will make that outcome even more likely for European companies. Then to add insult to injury, Huawei comes along and showed that they could operate at any standard you care to ask them to. If you get outcompeted by authoritarians and communists, it is worth asking what is wrong with your economic policies.
- tapoxi 4y ago
  Weren't they wrecked by Elop betting on Windows Phone? The MeeGo-powered N9 recieved positive reviews.
  - roenxi 4y ago
    If only the EU had thought to forestall him by mandating that all EU-sold phones were UI-compatible with Symbian and used high-quality Swiss keyboards. Or maybe stick to the cutting edge and standardise on Blackberry to really future-proof the Union. Then all would have been well.
    - sharemywin 4y ago
      I wonder if forcing a modular design would have creating a vibrant accessories market.
      - roenxi 4y ago
        Apple's tightly-integrated design was capturing more than 100% of the profit share of mobile pones for a few humourous quarters a decade ago, due to losses by everyone else. I suspect that forcing modular designs would not have helped the Europeans get products out that consumers wanted.
  - sbuk 4y ago
    Elop was the last nail. The reviews for the N9 were good, but it was too little, too late. Mind-share was already taken by Android and iOS, and Samsung were already eating into Nokia's dumb phone dominance. Nokia were dead in the water.
- MagnumOpus 4y ago
  > Their phone company (Nokia) was the market leader until they got wrecked by an inability to innovate Until they got wrecked by ex-Microsoftie North American Steve Elop - who drove the company agains the wall so hard that many people who looked at it at the time said that it couldn't have been accidental...
  - roenxi 4y ago
    And what do you think the board was thinking when they bought Elop in? They were thinking "Oh no, there is no way a European CEO will have enough experience in a real market to compete with this American juggernaut that is crushing us". They didn't bring Elop in because they thought they needed a steady pair of hands. They'd been caught out doing what great-grandparent says they do - sticking to the herd, playing safe, doing things the standard way and not innovating too hard.
- sharemywin 4y ago
  Creating a monopoly, then forcing consumers into a "monopoly tax" on bundled products isn't really innovation it's been around for at least 150 years.
dahfizz 4y ago
For reference on how quickly the EU moves on these things, USB-C is over 8 years old. It has been ubiquitous for years before this legislation came down. They aren't exactly staying on top of new tech. Also consider: USB-D is going to have a much harder time reaching the market penetration it needs to be relevant. It creates a chicken and egg problem. No manufacturer will want to upgrade if they are required to use USB-C, and the EU will never update the legislation if USB-D isn't widely used. The EU has traded some extra convenience now for severely limited innovation later.
- hyperman1 4y ago
  You're complaining about the time Apple managed to stall them. The EU has been very patient with them. Too patient, IMHO USB B micro was what the manufacturers were deciding amongst themselves (except Apple). The EU would not have created a law if they managed to agree, and some representative industry consortium could then upgrade the standard on their own. Nobody likes how the situation is forced now, including the EU. Apple foolishly fucked over everyone. Also note that USB 4 had no touble reaching market penetration, as it was backward compatible. A backward compatible connector is still possible. So is multiple charging methods like wireless charging. It's just that a minimum has been enshrined in law.

roenxi 4y ago

> This kind of process is quite normal for technology decisions in europe, BTW. Europe is technologically backwards. They got destroyed by Shenzhen and Silicon Valley because their bureaucrats keep rolling in with this sort of idiocy. They feel a need to bring this backseat design process because their local companies aren't up to the challenge of competing with more-nimble American megacorporations. Their phone company (Nokia) was the market leader until they got wrecked by an inability to innovate. This policy will make that outcome even more likely for European companies. Then to add insult to injury, Huawei comes along and showed that they could operate at any standard you care to ask them to. If you get outcompeted by authoritarians and communists, it is worth asking what is wrong with your economic policies.

tapoxi 4y ago
Weren't they wrecked by Elop betting on Windows Phone? The MeeGo-powered N9 recieved positive reviews.
- roenxi 4y ago
  If only the EU had thought to forestall him by mandating that all EU-sold phones were UI-compatible with Symbian and used high-quality Swiss keyboards. Or maybe stick to the cutting edge and standardise on Blackberry to really future-proof the Union. Then all would have been well.
  - sharemywin 4y ago
    I wonder if forcing a modular design would have creating a vibrant accessories market.
    - roenxi 4y ago
      Apple's tightly-integrated design was capturing more than 100% of the profit share of mobile pones for a few humourous quarters a decade ago, due to losses by everyone else. I suspect that forcing modular designs would not have helped the Europeans get products out that consumers wanted.
- sbuk 4y ago
  Elop was the last nail. The reviews for the N9 were good, but it was too little, too late. Mind-share was already taken by Android and iOS, and Samsung were already eating into Nokia's dumb phone dominance. Nokia were dead in the water.
MagnumOpus 4y ago
> Their phone company (Nokia) was the market leader until they got wrecked by an inability to innovate Until they got wrecked by ex-Microsoftie North American Steve Elop - who drove the company agains the wall so hard that many people who looked at it at the time said that it couldn't have been accidental...
- roenxi 4y ago
  And what do you think the board was thinking when they bought Elop in? They were thinking "Oh no, there is no way a European CEO will have enough experience in a real market to compete with this American juggernaut that is crushing us". They didn't bring Elop in because they thought they needed a steady pair of hands. They'd been caught out doing what great-grandparent says they do - sticking to the herd, playing safe, doing things the standard way and not innovating too hard.
sharemywin 4y ago
Creating a monopoly, then forcing consumers into a "monopoly tax" on bundled products isn't really innovation it's been around for at least 150 years.

dahfizz 4y ago

For reference on how quickly the EU moves on these things, USB-C is over 8 years old. It has been ubiquitous for years before this legislation came down. They aren't exactly staying on top of new tech. Also consider: USB-D is going to have a much harder time reaching the market penetration it needs to be relevant. It creates a chicken and egg problem. No manufacturer will want to upgrade if they are required to use USB-C, and the EU will never update the legislation if USB-D isn't widely used. The EU has traded some extra convenience now for severely limited innovation later.

hyperman1 4y ago
You're complaining about the time Apple managed to stall them. The EU has been very patient with them. Too patient, IMHO USB B micro was what the manufacturers were deciding amongst themselves (except Apple). The EU would not have created a law if they managed to agree, and some representative industry consortium could then upgrade the standard on their own. Nobody likes how the situation is forced now, including the EU. Apple foolishly fucked over everyone. Also note that USB 4 had no touble reaching market penetration, as it was backward compatible. A backward compatible connector is still possible. So is multiple charging methods like wireless charging. It's just that a minimum has been enshrined in law.