4 ms·

I can “reassure” you: this is unambiguously a bad idea. First, market forces already standardized on two main standards. Second, the interop problem is a $10

by jmull 4y ago

I can “reassure” you: this is unambiguously a bad idea. First, market forces already standardized on two main standards. Second, the interop problem is a $10 cable between wall-wart and device. So the problem solved is a small one. I think this idea got its momentum from years ago when practically every model of phone had a different charger and wall wart. Meanwhile, think about what you lose. Is USB-C really the end-game of charging connectors? It has existing issues with labeling and capabilities confusion. What about mag-safe-style connectors? Does a phone necessarily need a charging connector at all and might there not be advantages to not having one? As an aside, ewaste will increase in the short term, of course, as people will have to throw out their lighting stuff and buy USB-C stuff. (Don’t worry, it’s not a lot — small problem, remember.)

skohan 4y ago
But you're assuming this USB-C decision is eternal right? Couldn't the problems you raised be solved by having a standards organization which could monitor and update the status quo over time based on the technologies available?
- jmull 4y ago
  Which already exists -- without EU regulatory processes to encumber them.
Nullabillity 4y ago
> First, market forces already standardized on two main standards. So, one standard too many. Especially when one of those standards is held hostage by one corporation. > Is USB-C really the end-game of charging connectors? It's close enough, we can already see that improvements have been incredibly incremental already. Hell, it would have been fine to stick to micro-B or even mini-B. > What about mag-safe-style connectors? You already have people building those as third-party dongles. Clearly it doesn't have to be part of the spec. > Does a phone necessarily need a charging connector at all Yes. Wireless charging is inherently far less efficient than wired charging. > and might there not be advantages to not having one? No. To steal a quote from yourself: this is unambiguously a bad idea.
- jmull 4y ago
  - wincy 4y ago
    I hope the US doesn’t have to have USB-C iPhones because of this. Just like it’s super annoying getting a cookie bar on every single website I go to every single time. I just roll my eyes every time I see it.
    - skohan 4y ago
      What disadvantage do you see with USB-C iPhones? I would love to share a cable with my laptop, phone, tablet and everything else
    - simion314 4y ago
      Shit, did not know web devs are so bad so you get EU GDPR pops in US, the idiots are showing you what dirty thing they are doing without having to do it, or maybe the devs are smart and wanted you to see all those 100+ partners are giving the US citizens the option to opt out, if the later great from them to give you the option.
    - kaba0 4y ago
      EU effect — so you will also get USB-C iphones.
  - Nullabillity 4y ago
    Yes, I agree with the proposed regulation…? I'd be interested to see an actual proposed improvement that isn't just "we changed the plug so you have to buy new cables (from us)!" or "we made charging 80% less efficient!". But so far there has been no meaningful improvement in the last… 20 years or so, and an awful lot of new incompatible standards.
    - jmull 4y ago
      > But so far there has been no meaningful improvement in the last… 20 years or so Do you really think there have been no meaningful improvements in charging connectors in the last 20 years?
Kbelicius 4y ago
> First, market forces already standardized on two main standards. EU sat down the manufacturers and told them that if they don't come to an agreement the EU will make the choice for them. Most of them came to an agreement. So you are right, market forces did make manufacturers to standardize on two main standards. That force is named EU. > Is USB-C really the end-game of charging connectors? No, and EU has no illusions that it is. > Does a phone necessarily need a charging connector at all and might there not be advantages to not having one? No, and the EU doesn't think that it does. > As an aside, ewaste will increase in the short term, of course, as people will have to throw out their lighting stuff and buy USB-C stuff. (Don’t worry, it’s not a lot — small problem, remember.) This is just stupid fearmongering. People won't have to throw their lightning stuff.
- jmull 4y ago
  I don't think EU regulation works the way you think it does. > This is just stupid fearmongering. I guess if you can't make a good point, you can always hurl insults. What do you think people who upgrade their iPhones in 2024 will do with their lightning cables which no longer connect to anything they have?
  - jhasse 4y ago
    > What do you think people who upgrade their iPhones in 2024 will do with their lightning cables which no longer connect to anything they have? sell
    - jmull 4y ago
      The EU market for cables with lightning connectors will be contracting for some reason at that time.
  - grey-area 4y ago
    New iphones come with a cable.
  - skohan 4y ago
    Even if they throw them out, it's better to pull off the bandaid than to go on creating more and more redundant cables and e-waste for the next 30 years

by jmull 4y ago

skohan 4y ago

But you're assuming this USB-C decision is eternal right? Couldn't the problems you raised be solved by having a standards organization which could monitor and update the status quo over time based on the technologies available?

jmull 4y ago
Which already exists -- without EU regulatory processes to encumber them.

Nullabillity 4y ago

> First, market forces already standardized on two main standards. So, one standard too many. Especially when one of those standards is held hostage by one corporation. > Is USB-C really the end-game of charging connectors? It's close enough, we can already see that improvements have been incredibly incremental already. Hell, it would have been fine to stick to micro-B or even mini-B. > What about mag-safe-style connectors? You already have people building those as third-party dongles. Clearly it doesn't have to be part of the spec. > Does a phone necessarily need a charging connector at all Yes. Wireless charging is inherently far less efficient than wired charging. > and might there not be advantages to not having one? No. To steal a quote from yourself: this is unambiguously a bad idea.

jmull 4y ago
- wincy 4y ago
  I hope the US doesn’t have to have USB-C iPhones because of this. Just like it’s super annoying getting a cookie bar on every single website I go to every single time. I just roll my eyes every time I see it.
  - skohan 4y ago
    What disadvantage do you see with USB-C iPhones? I would love to share a cable with my laptop, phone, tablet and everything else
  - simion314 4y ago
    Shit, did not know web devs are so bad so you get EU GDPR pops in US, the idiots are showing you what dirty thing they are doing without having to do it, or maybe the devs are smart and wanted you to see all those 100+ partners are giving the US citizens the option to opt out, if the later great from them to give you the option.
  - kaba0 4y ago
    EU effect — so you will also get USB-C iphones.
- Nullabillity 4y ago
  Yes, I agree with the proposed regulation…? I'd be interested to see an actual proposed improvement that isn't just "we changed the plug so you have to buy new cables (from us)!" or "we made charging 80% less efficient!". But so far there has been no meaningful improvement in the last… 20 years or so, and an awful lot of new incompatible standards.
  - jmull 4y ago
    > But so far there has been no meaningful improvement in the last… 20 years or so Do you really think there have been no meaningful improvements in charging connectors in the last 20 years?

Kbelicius 4y ago

> First, market forces already standardized on two main standards. EU sat down the manufacturers and told them that if they don't come to an agreement the EU will make the choice for them. Most of them came to an agreement. So you are right, market forces did make manufacturers to standardize on two main standards. That force is named EU. > Is USB-C really the end-game of charging connectors? No, and EU has no illusions that it is. > Does a phone necessarily need a charging connector at all and might there not be advantages to not having one? No, and the EU doesn't think that it does. > As an aside, ewaste will increase in the short term, of course, as people will have to throw out their lighting stuff and buy USB-C stuff. (Don’t worry, it’s not a lot — small problem, remember.) This is just stupid fearmongering. People won't have to throw their lightning stuff.

jmull 4y ago
I don't think EU regulation works the way you think it does. > This is just stupid fearmongering. I guess if you can't make a good point, you can always hurl insults. What do you think people who upgrade their iPhones in 2024 will do with their lightning cables which no longer connect to anything they have?
- jhasse 4y ago
  > What do you think people who upgrade their iPhones in 2024 will do with their lightning cables which no longer connect to anything they have? sell
  - jmull 4y ago
    The EU market for cables with lightning connectors will be contracting for some reason at that time.
- grey-area 4y ago
  New iphones come with a cable.
- skohan 4y ago
  Even if they throw them out, it's better to pull off the bandaid than to go on creating more and more redundant cables and e-waste for the next 30 years