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Have people actually constructed a concrete example of a theory that's super deterministic in a way that violates the bell inequalities but is complex enough to

Have people actually constructed a concrete example of a theory that's super deterministic in a way that violates the bell inequalities but is complex enough to contain Turing machines driving the tests? The requirement that you can encode Turing machines might sound silly but I really think it's the core of the issue. The ability to make computers implies a certain level of hard-to-control due to the existence of things like the halting problem and pseudo random number generators and cryptographic hash functions. My understanding is that super determinism is one of those loopholes where it's easy to say its a problem, but actually providung a plausible concrete model where it's a problem is very hard.

q-big 4y ago
> Have people actually constructed a concrete example of a theory that's super deterministic in a way that violates the bell inequalities but is complex enough to contain Turing machines driving the tests? I am not aware that such a theory exists, but the Nobel laureate Gerard 't Hooft made some possible first baby steps into this direction: Gerard 't Hooft; The Cellular Automaton Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics > https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-3-319-41285-6 https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-3-319-41285-6
abdullahkhalids 4y ago
Turing machines will exist in even very simple universes, because they are very simple. Instead physicists usually use complexity theory to analyze any proposed new universe or a theory for our universe. If for example, the new theory ensures P=NP, then is suspect. There is a lot of work done on this, but I don't know a good reference off the top of my head. However, sometimes, people do think about Turing Machines. Here is one paper by Scott Aaronson http://www.scottaaronson.com/papers/ctchalt.pdf http://www.scottaaronson.com/papers/ctchalt.pdf

q-big 4y ago

> Have people actually constructed a concrete example of a theory that's super deterministic in a way that violates the bell inequalities but is complex enough to contain Turing machines driving the tests? I am not aware that such a theory exists, but the Nobel laureate Gerard 't Hooft made some possible first baby steps into this direction: Gerard 't Hooft; The Cellular Automaton Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics > https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-3-319-41285-6 https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-3-319-41285-6

abdullahkhalids 4y ago

Turing machines will exist in even very simple universes, because they are very simple. Instead physicists usually use complexity theory to analyze any proposed new universe or a theory for our universe. If for example, the new theory ensures P=NP, then is suspect. There is a lot of work done on this, but I don't know a good reference off the top of my head. However, sometimes, people do think about Turing Machines. Here is one paper by Scott Aaronson http://www.scottaaronson.com/papers/ctchalt.pdf http://www.scottaaronson.com/papers/ctchalt.pdf