4 ms·
I understand why people are pissing their pants over a hypothetical more than the reality. It takes a lot of courage to confront evil. It even takes courage to
by cmurf 4y ago
I understand why people are pissing their pants over a hypothetical more than the reality. It takes a lot of courage to confront evil. It even takes courage to admit evil exists. Not everyone has this capability.
Ukraine has a right to defend itself until Russia has withdrawn from Ukraine, and complies with their prior agreements[1], all of which they agreed to voluntarily. So long as they're not complying with those agreements, why bother making another one that they'll just piss on?
It was a Soviet jurist who referred to wars of aggression as the supreme international crime. The worst wars have all been wars of aggression. That is why it is never to be committed. For the first time in history a nuclear armed nation, that's also a founding member of the UN, and permanent member of the Security Council, has directly violated the most important proscription in all of international law. The very reason why the UN exists, and the Security Council exists, is to prevent exactly what Russia alone has done.
Compromise with evil will completely undo what we thought we had learned from WW1 and WW2. There is something you don't fear enough, because you can't possibly have an imagination for it, given what you wrote. Unwinding the current international system of laws is a demand to resume world war, because obviously we did not learn the lesson the first two times around. Abandoning the lessons we have, however imperfect, is what leads to hell! Not defending the most important lessons!
Chamberlain also thought about giving in to tyranny. Tyranny made a peace agreement with him. And then reneged two years later, starting WW2 after it had sufficiently built up its industrial military capacity.
We have very good reason to know if Ukraine doesn't defend itself, it will be exterminated. Russia has published a genocide handbook akin to Mein Kampf [2]. One of the lessons from history is, when they tell you they want to commit genocide, believe them. Whereas Russia could withdraw at any time, and Russians would accept it because they live in tyranny. They'd have no choice but to accept it.
We are dealing with this now because the world ignored the invasion in 2014. We're lucky Putin is so badly prepared in 2022.
[1]
https://www.un.org/en/about-us/un-charter https://www.un.org/en/about-us/un-charter
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Conventions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geneva_Conventions
[2]
https://human-rights.cmc.edu/2022/04/14/russias-genocide-handbook/ https://human-rights.cmc.edu/2022/04/14/russias-genocide-han...
- Cupertino95014 4y agoMaybe try again without resorting to the Munich or WW II analogies.
- cmurf 4y agoCowards volunteer other people to be more brave and sacrifice more than they already have. It's also uncivilized. There is one escalating party, and Russia can end this war faster than anyone. By withdrawing. In the meantime, Ukraine has the right to self-defense.
- Cupertino95014 4y agoI don't even know what you think you're saying by the first paragraph. Thinking everything is a test of your courage is adolescent, and a great way to get killed.
- cmurf 4y agoI never advocated to consider everything a test of courage. I only said it's certain that confronting evil requires it. As I see it, the "roll over" contingency are emotionally weak, demanding to be coddled by Ukraine sacrificing itself via a land swap, as if this would pacify Putin. If you want to roll over for tyranny, it's your choice. But it's uncivilized to insist other people do so, so that you can avoid even contemplating hypothetical nuclear war. Suggesting people vote on their own genocide is insanity. I can only imagine Musk and the "roll over to Russia" contingency are deeply ignorant of Russia's written intent to commit genocide --> that Ukraine does not exist, Ukrainian people and language do not exist - anyone asserting they do, and want independence from Russia, are Nazis and must be murdered. Or maybe worse, they are aware of it and just don't give damn. I'm not sure who having this discussion is unaware that Ukraine already had the election he proposed, but it's pretty damn ignorant to wade into the discussion not directly addressing the election, as if it doesn't matter. And not addressing the Budapest Memorandum, as if it doesn't matter. https://human-rights.cmc.edu/2022/04/14/russias-genocide-handbook/ https://human-rights.cmc.edu/2022/04/14/russias-genocide-han... https://twitter.com/carlbildt/status/1576472432445095938 https://twitter.com/carlbildt/status/1576472432445095938