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The Brain on Psychedelics
- fasteddie31003 4y agoBeing on Psychedelics and being strapped onto an MRI machine where I couldn't move sounds terrible. There is some definite measurement problems going on with a study like this.
- libraryatnight 4y agoMRI machines are the stuff of nightmares for me, I can't imagine the hell that would be.
- agumonkey 4y agoDepends on the model though, on small one where there's really no room around your head, which is locked in a cage is really edging on psychological torture depending on your anxiety level.
- colordrops 4y agoPsychedelics have caused heavy anxiety for me even when sitting next to a beautiful mountaib stream. I've had a panic attack in an MRI while sober. Couldn't imagine doing both at the same time.
- MarkMarine 4y agoMight just wipe those fears out of your mind if you were in the right mental space and coached through it. As I understand it, this is showing promise in treating the kind of panic attack/PTSD trauma you're describing. I only mention PTSD because it's been a problem for some of my friends and they are very interested in the positive news about psychedelics as treatment options. From my perspective, a long acting treatment done via psychedelics and a guide, in a controlled environment, with no need to repeatedly take a drug and no day to day side effects of that drug (because, you're not taking one) is incredibly promising. Unfortunately, this is exactly the kind of treatment that the business behind medicine doesn't like, so I'm quite skeptical if it's ever brought to market.
- Ntrails 4y agoI had an hour long (ish, maybe a bit longer?) brain scan in an MRI for a control in a phd friend's study. I snoozed and the only notable thing was me sleepily snapping at her for waking me up to tell me what was happening... The ear defender/headphones were pretty great
- scajanus 4y agoSame for me (and plenty of coworkers who took part in the same studies) -- hardest part of taking part in the fMRI experiments was staying awake through it.
- Broken_Hippo 4y agoTo everyone reading: There is a cage on your head if you get a scan of your head. But if they are looking at your abdomen, you'll find a different sort of device over your midsection. I'm guessing that they have stuff for other parts as well. I don't personally mind the cage, and a lot of models have a mirror so that your field of vision is greater than the tube. (I get regular MRIs due to MS and a pancreas cyst)
- agumonkey 4y agoApologies for not being precise :)
- Mezzie 4y agoHuh this just made me realize I never keep my eyes open in the MRI machine. (I also have MS). Now I'm wondering which is more common.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- Broken_Hippo 4y agoI keep my eyes open as they put me in the tube, and close them when the test starts. I'm always afraid that I'll think something looks interesting and move my head while trying to see it. I might find an MRI relaxing, but I still don't wanna do it twice.
- Mezzie 4y agoI hate when I have to do them twice. I twitch a lot. It's the worst, and I'm uncomfortable, and the tech is stressed because it screws up the scheduling and ugh it's just the worst. Or when I have to pee in the middle.
- ta988 4y agoYes these are the coils used for excitation and reading. But really what you hear are the gradient coils inside the magnet assembly.
- giantg2 4y agoI was wondering if the inconsistent outcomes they were talking about could be due to environemnt/scenario influence. Like how people have completely different experiences based on their mindset, environment, etc prior to taking the drug. In my stupid mind, it's as if the drug doesn't have simply one effect, but enhances whatever is there already. Sort of like how some medications have different effects at different doses or in combination with different medicines.
- sva_ 4y agoI have never been in an MRI but I imagine with some good headphones and blindfolds it might be interesting.
- mikeg8 4y agoDoubtful. It’s not comfortable, you can’t move, and it’s extremely noisy to the point that no headphones would be able to drown out the mechanical sounds that would ruin a psychedelic experience
- Broken_Hippo 4y agoI dunno. I have to get MRIs regularly: Once a year for my central nervous system (I have MS, this is common) and once a year or so for my pancreas. I don't mind at all. I have to stay alert for the pancreas since I have to hold my breath at one point, but all I do for the brain/spinal cord is lay still. The machine vibrates, headphones dull the sound, and sometimes there is music. I could sleep and I find the vibration kind of soothing - much like being in a car. I kinda look forward to it, honestly.
- mikeg8 4y agoI’m not saying that the MRI experience itself is unbearable. But have you ever done psychedelics? No sleeping/snoozing. Your mind is very, very active and it can be intense/emotional. The experience I’ve had with MRI and shrooms/LSD makes them seem very incompatible. Just my opinion though.
- fluoridation 4y agoI don't know. Mushrooms make me want to stay as still as possible in whatever position I'm in, even if it's standing. Unless the person suffers from claustrophobia, I don't think it would be an unbearable experience. It is possible to sort of sleep on psychs. I guess it's not quite sleep; it's more like a relaxed state of altered consciousness within the "normal" state of altered consciousness. I sometimes become alert again and realize I dozed off for a few minutes without losing track of time.
- calt 4y agoI actually kind of like an MRI. The rhythmic pulsing is relaxing. But obligatory relevant xkcd https://xkcd.com/1453/ https://xkcd.com/1453/ > Our fMRI study found that subjects performing simple memory tasks showed activity in the parts of the brain associated with loud noises clautrophobia, and the removal of jewelry.
- Broken_Hippo 4y agoI actually kind of like an MRI. The rhythmic pulsing is relaxing. Same, very much so. I often lament that a voice comes through and talks to me.
- Velc 4y agoI thought I was the only one, great to hear others enjoy them also.
- belkarx 4y agoUsing an Upright MRI [0] (created to help claustrophobic patients and is relatively open) might help. [0] http://www.uprightmrideerfield.com/5-reasons-to-choose-upright-mri http://www.uprightmrideerfield.com/5-reasons-to-choose-uprig...
- RHSman2 4y agoI have fallen asleep in MRI’s everytime. I find the experience incredibly relaxing. I also am very sensitive to mind altering substances. Go figure
- antihero 4y agoTry being strapped to a hospital bed in foreign country experiencing the most traumatic hallucinations and unending loops that are beyond the imaginable. Do not fuck with strong acid.
- giantg2 4y agoInteresting stuff. Is there anything that backs up the assumption below? It seems to make sense, but I'm wondering if it's possible the change in activity with the drug(s) could also mean that the areas are operating independently (on separate tasks switching so quickly to be essentially parrallel, or operating on an unconscious task). "... to look for correlations in blood flow between two or more regions. When correlations are found, the assumption is that these brain regions are communicating and are engaged in the same cognitive processes ..."
- belkarx 4y ago> These studies have revealed that psychedelics cause brain regions whose activity is normally robustly coupled to become less coordinated. And many regions that are usually only loosely connected start to communicate with each other more The same effects are seen with deep meditation, which is interesting because LSD may offer a faster path to neuroplasticity [0] and potentially some of the other meditation related benefits (stronger DNM/sense of self). [0] "a single administration of a psychedelic produces rapid changes in plasticity mechanisms on a molecular, neuronal, synaptic, and dendritic level" -(https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2021.724606/full https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2021.7246...)
- ActorNightly 4y ago>The same effects are seen with deep meditation, The same type of effects can be achieved with meditation, but to a much, much, much lesser degree.
- belkarx 4y agoCan you support that? I'm sure it depends on the doses, and this makes me wonder how the risks compare as well
- DerekBickerton 4y agoFrom my experience with psilocybin-containing mushrooms, I didn't hallucinate. Rather, my senses grew incredibly sharper and everything was super-vivid. I could see why they would be great for hunting in a prehistoric setting and would give one an unfair advantage. Shrooms are even known to increase visual acuity. It was like watching 4K video for the first time after watching standard definition your whole life. As for my mind, I had what people call a 'mystical experience' but I was so young (20s) that I didn't have the necessary words to describe it or put it into words. It's only when I read up about Gnosticism and went down various conspiracy theory rabbit-holes on Youtube that I could piece it all together, and have the right words to describe it (escaping the Matrix etc). I would never try them again though. Too risky. I value my mental health too much. If I want shroom-like hallucinations though, I use the Lumenate app which everyone should try... https://lumenategrowth.com/ https://lumenategrowth.com/
- fluoridation 4y agoI doubt they actually increase the quality of perception, they just make you feel like you can see more clearly. That would be an interesting study to do, though, whether people on psychedelics can see things differently in an externally measurable way. A different sort of study has been performed that measured that people who had used psychedelics in the past were less able to see strobe lights at certain frequencies than people who had never used them, with people who suffered from HPPD being even more impaired.
- Covzire 4y agoApparently there have been no documented cases of schizophrenia found in people who've been blind since birth. It would be interesting if someone explored the relationships between the effects of psychedelics and those with another kind of blindness, Aphantasia and those without.
- r2_pilot 4y agoThis reminds me of a site I came across that uses the properties of a trip to show psychonauts messages that sober humans would find more difficult to interpret: https://qualiacomputing.com/2015/05/22/how-to-secretly-communicate-with-people-on-lsd/ https://qualiacomputing.com/2015/05/22/how-to-secretly-commu...
- pazimzadeh 4y agoIt turns out that the majority of the 5-HT receptors (and 5-HT itself) are found in the gastrointestinal tract, not in the brain. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0163725894900094 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0163725894... https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acschemneuro.6b00414 https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acschemneuro.6b00414 Maybe that is why bowel movements are fairly common during the come-up of a trip.
- elevaet 4y agoDefinitely. Your guts are tripping out too.
- elevaet 4y agoThe nuggets (imho): > psychedelic drugs activate the 5-HT2A serotonin receptor. Once stimulated, these receptors make neurons more excitable, and their blanket activation by psychedelics causes widespread changes to neural networks. > There are 5-HT2A receptors throughout the brain, but they are most abundant in the cerebral cortex, particularly in areas responsible for cognition and self-awareness. Furthermore, 5-HT2A receptors are highly expressed in the visual cortex, and on the ends of axons that cortical neurons send elsewhere in the brain, such as the thalamus, where sensory information is processed. > these studies indicate that psychedelics lead to “more connections between networks, and less connectivity within networks,” ... brain areas that usually have strong functional connections — and that operate in a network that has a fairly circumscribed function — become less connected, suggesting that the drugs disrupt those networks’ normal outputs. And brain areas whose activity is normally only weakly correlated become more connected.
- techwarrior 4y ago