3 ms·

What you say about some writing today is true, but beware of the bubble effect of social networks and the internet: not everyone reads or writes like you do, an

What you say about some writing today is true, but beware of the bubble effect of social networks and the internet: not everyone reads or writes like you do, and just because the set of people famous now doesn't intersect with those still writing and reading conventional books doesn't tell you anything about the future. Truth is, bad writing has always been wrote, there was throwaway writing also in ancient Rome for instance, which was something like (but not quite) our newspapers. And again, newspapers came, book persisted. Smartphones came... books are persisting.

falcolas 4y ago
What's more important from this article, to me, is that things that are written today are not stable - they can and do change as the engagement with them is measured and interpreted.
- the_af 4y ago
  But are books malleable, though? Are we comparing articles, opinions and news (mostly impermanent, at least by intention) with books and treatises (mostly permanent)? Or is this about how we index supposedly permanent stuff, i.e. "the library" where we store it? I'm confused because the article starts with Herodotus and the alleged elegance and permanence of his works; but Herodotus was a historian, not an influencer. We still have historians and writers in this day and age; aren't their works as "permanent"?
  - falcolas 4y ago
    Ebooks are absolutely malleable. New versions and patches are applied behind the scenes by publishers on a regular basis. And less frequently, these books are removed from publication completely, including pulling them from readers. And given that even physical books have multiple releases with changes, they are not exactly written in stone either. Whether this should be allowed is a topic in and of itself.
    - the_af 4y ago
      But by your own admission, ebooks are malleable in the same sense that books always were: later editions fixing typos, removing or adding chapters, even dealing with censorships issues! This was also true in Herodotus' time. People in ancient times also had to deal with censorship, only it was enforced by sword or fire instead of by removing from digital storage. It's only made technically easier with ebooks, but this is nothing new or extraordinary. Ebooks are not malleable in the sense I think the author meant, of impermanence and of being specifically tailored for your living-in-a-bubble preferences. At least not now, who knows in the future?
      - falcolas 4y ago
        I think the notable difference is that ebook alterations most often occur without user input (buying a new version, downloading a new version) and without notifying the user (no alerts, no version increments, or release dates). As for the "tailored for each user", we do have proof that some personalization can and is made for ebooks (DRM, buyer's name). Is the content itself being tailored? I believe it is (with the caveat of I have no evidence). I think some censorship for sales to Russia, China, et.al. is being done transparently.
        the_af 4y ago
        I agree ebook technology could be used for this in totalitarian states. But is that the argument of TFA? I don't think that's the case he's making, I don't see malicious intent in what he describes. I think my Kindle notifies me when there's an update of a novel. This could of course be subverted. But are we ready to claim this is what happens to the majority of e-novels? I don't think it is. I'm also willing to bet that so far no novel in my Kindle has been edited with changes specifically tailored for me by an algorithm (meaningful text changes, I mean. I don't mean the book cover or DRM or whatever, and neither does the author of the TFA. That's why he talks about the elegance of words, which has nothing to do with DRM!). This could change and I absolutely see a dystopian future where this can happen. But my understanding is that the author is describing the situation now, and I just don't see it.
  - woojoo666 4y ago
    Even if books were more permanent than articles, less people are reading books. What matters is the content that the general public is consuming, and that is trending towards malleable media

falcolas 4y ago

What's more important from this article, to me, is that things that are written today are not stable - they can and do change as the engagement with them is measured and interpreted.

the_af 4y ago
But are books malleable, though? Are we comparing articles, opinions and news (mostly impermanent, at least by intention) with books and treatises (mostly permanent)? Or is this about how we index supposedly permanent stuff, i.e. "the library" where we store it? I'm confused because the article starts with Herodotus and the alleged elegance and permanence of his works; but Herodotus was a historian, not an influencer. We still have historians and writers in this day and age; aren't their works as "permanent"?
- falcolas 4y ago
  Ebooks are absolutely malleable. New versions and patches are applied behind the scenes by publishers on a regular basis. And less frequently, these books are removed from publication completely, including pulling them from readers. And given that even physical books have multiple releases with changes, they are not exactly written in stone either. Whether this should be allowed is a topic in and of itself.
  - the_af 4y ago
    But by your own admission, ebooks are malleable in the same sense that books always were: later editions fixing typos, removing or adding chapters, even dealing with censorships issues! This was also true in Herodotus' time. People in ancient times also had to deal with censorship, only it was enforced by sword or fire instead of by removing from digital storage. It's only made technically easier with ebooks, but this is nothing new or extraordinary. Ebooks are not malleable in the sense I think the author meant, of impermanence and of being specifically tailored for your living-in-a-bubble preferences. At least not now, who knows in the future?
    - falcolas 4y ago
      I think the notable difference is that ebook alterations most often occur without user input (buying a new version, downloading a new version) and without notifying the user (no alerts, no version increments, or release dates). As for the "tailored for each user", we do have proof that some personalization can and is made for ebooks (DRM, buyer's name). Is the content itself being tailored? I believe it is (with the caveat of I have no evidence). I think some censorship for sales to Russia, China, et.al. is being done transparently.
      - the_af 4y ago
        I agree ebook technology could be used for this in totalitarian states. But is that the argument of TFA? I don't think that's the case he's making, I don't see malicious intent in what he describes. I think my Kindle notifies me when there's an update of a novel. This could of course be subverted. But are we ready to claim this is what happens to the majority of e-novels? I don't think it is. I'm also willing to bet that so far no novel in my Kindle has been edited with changes specifically tailored for me by an algorithm (meaningful text changes, I mean. I don't mean the book cover or DRM or whatever, and neither does the author of the TFA. That's why he talks about the elegance of words, which has nothing to do with DRM!). This could change and I absolutely see a dystopian future where this can happen. But my understanding is that the author is describing the situation now, and I just don't see it.
- woojoo666 4y ago
  Even if books were more permanent than articles, less people are reading books. What matters is the content that the general public is consuming, and that is trending towards malleable media