6 ms·

If you're uncomfortable with the term 'schizoid,' you can try medicating the heck out of it and calling it ADHD.

Cornelius267 4y ago
These are different things. They may share some overlapping symptoms, perhaps even some similar brain changes, but the internal phenomenology of them are quite different. They are not exclusive, but nor are they the same thing.
- kyleyeats 4y ago
  No, they're just different words and different times. Schizoids have a false mask they use to interact with others. If we could have, we would have medicated them back then so that they're always presenting with the false mask instead of their "wrong" asocial presentation. That's what ADHD is. We didn't suddenly stop having schizoids and start having a bunch of ADHD people.
  - Cornelius267 4y ago
    No, they are different things. I am honestly quite confused as to how you could think that they were the same thing. They both exist as a constellation of separate diagnostic criteria, for example, and the internal phenomenology of both is different. You can have one, but not the other, or you could have both. For example, here's a quora where someone with both talks about it: https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-ADHD-and-schizoid-personality-disorder-I-have-been-diagnosed-ADHD-and-only-recently-discovered-SPD-however-I-feel-I-strongly-identify-with-both https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-ADHD-an... Or if you prefer a more 'scientific' source, here's one examining the comorbidity of ADHD and certain disorders, among which Schizoid Personality Disorder is one: https://www.elsevier.es/en-revista-revista-psiquiatria-salud-mental-486-articulo-comorbidity-personality-disorders-attention-deficit-hyperactivity-S217350501830030X https://www.elsevier.es/en-revista-revista-psiquiatria-salud... They find a correlation, yes, but they are certainly not one and the same.
    - kyleyeats 4y ago
      I mean, do you think ADHD is new? Did it just not exist before 1990 or whenever it was made up? Do you think any medical condition before then covers what ADHD is/was? Lance Armstrong when he is biking and Lance Armstrong when he is recovering are not the same either. But Lance can take drugs to get more of the biking time and less of the recovering time. This is how SPD and ADHD work. ADHD is just a medicated false mask that a schizoid person can maintain for longer periods of time than usual, without episodes of hermitude to recharge. They're doping. Failure to maintain the mask looks like a breakdown in attention/focus. People do long, focused work because of the expectations of others. Schizoids don't experience that, but instead basically run on obsession. They stop working when that fizzles out. On pills, though, they can work forever. The 'scientific' people serve the people making the pills and nobody else. They rename everything every few years to sell more pills. If you want a proper take on SPD, look up Millon and his subtypes. Most of the "knowledge" of conditions in the zeitgeist comes from prescription drug commercials.
      - intelVISA 4y ago
        I'm rusty but ADHD was HKD (hyperkinetic disorder) in the olden times and had a much, much tighter criteria pre DSM-5? Think incident rates in Europe is approx. <2% under ICD-10 vs >10% in America due to DSM. The major diff. iirc was no comorbidity in the case of HKD. If you were depressed or anxious you couldn't also have ADHD whereas in America we can just top up amphetamines with benzos and treat them both. Make of that what you will $$.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - diputsmonro 4y ago
        I think you're being overly cynical. Of course over time as science advances we will recognize more subtle distinctions between things which we used to perceive as the same. That's how science works. Just because two separate things are similar and sometimes found together doesn't mean they are identical. Whether something is a "disorder" or not is somewhat subjective and opinionated, for sure. But as someone diagnosed with ADHD, I often find that the expectations of modern society can be debilitating. Whether the disorder lies in me or in an unaccommodating society is an interesting question, but it is a separate one.
hosh 4y ago
SPD shares more similarities to Narcissitic Personality Disorder than it does with ADHD -- not in terms of effect and imposition on other people, but rather in the lived experience of self and other, self and world. I don't think SPD (or NPD) are something you can medicate.
- plutonorm 4y ago
  Perhaps long acting oxytocin.
  - hosh 4y ago
    If we're going that route, I think it's more likely we'll see clinical outcomes with therupeutic use of psilosybin or MDMA. I don't think it is so much that the brain needs to be tweaked, but that experiencing self, other, and world in a different ways can transform those in a way that does not require ongoing medication.
- kyleyeats 4y ago
  They're also kinda opposites. The cure for NPD is isolation and the cure for SPD is being around people (agreed-- neither are in pill form yet). They both have immutable internal status, but the narcissist's is very low while the schizoid's is very high. The best example IMO of a cured narcissist is Larry Lawton, who faced a long period of isolation in prison. He's on Youtube.

These are different things. They may share some overlapping symptoms, perhaps even some similar brain changes, but the internal phenomenology of them are quite different. They are not exclusive, but nor are they the same thing.

kyleyeats 4y ago
No, they're just different words and different times. Schizoids have a false mask they use to interact with others. If we could have, we would have medicated them back then so that they're always presenting with the false mask instead of their "wrong" asocial presentation. That's what ADHD is. We didn't suddenly stop having schizoids and start having a bunch of ADHD people.
- Cornelius267 4y ago
  No, they are different things. I am honestly quite confused as to how you could think that they were the same thing. They both exist as a constellation of separate diagnostic criteria, for example, and the internal phenomenology of both is different. You can have one, but not the other, or you could have both. For example, here's a quora where someone with both talks about it: https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-ADHD-and-schizoid-personality-disorder-I-have-been-diagnosed-ADHD-and-only-recently-discovered-SPD-however-I-feel-I-strongly-identify-with-both https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-difference-between-ADHD-an... Or if you prefer a more 'scientific' source, here's one examining the comorbidity of ADHD and certain disorders, among which Schizoid Personality Disorder is one: https://www.elsevier.es/en-revista-revista-psiquiatria-salud-mental-486-articulo-comorbidity-personality-disorders-attention-deficit-hyperactivity-S217350501830030X https://www.elsevier.es/en-revista-revista-psiquiatria-salud... They find a correlation, yes, but they are certainly not one and the same.
  - kyleyeats 4y ago
    I mean, do you think ADHD is new? Did it just not exist before 1990 or whenever it was made up? Do you think any medical condition before then covers what ADHD is/was? Lance Armstrong when he is biking and Lance Armstrong when he is recovering are not the same either. But Lance can take drugs to get more of the biking time and less of the recovering time. This is how SPD and ADHD work. ADHD is just a medicated false mask that a schizoid person can maintain for longer periods of time than usual, without episodes of hermitude to recharge. They're doping. Failure to maintain the mask looks like a breakdown in attention/focus. People do long, focused work because of the expectations of others. Schizoids don't experience that, but instead basically run on obsession. They stop working when that fizzles out. On pills, though, they can work forever. The 'scientific' people serve the people making the pills and nobody else. They rename everything every few years to sell more pills. If you want a proper take on SPD, look up Millon and his subtypes. Most of the "knowledge" of conditions in the zeitgeist comes from prescription drug commercials.
    - intelVISA 4y ago
      I'm rusty but ADHD was HKD (hyperkinetic disorder) in the olden times and had a much, much tighter criteria pre DSM-5? Think incident rates in Europe is approx. <2% under ICD-10 vs >10% in America due to DSM. The major diff. iirc was no comorbidity in the case of HKD. If you were depressed or anxious you couldn't also have ADHD whereas in America we can just top up amphetamines with benzos and treat them both. Make of that what you will $$.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - diputsmonro 4y ago
      I think you're being overly cynical. Of course over time as science advances we will recognize more subtle distinctions between things which we used to perceive as the same. That's how science works. Just because two separate things are similar and sometimes found together doesn't mean they are identical. Whether something is a "disorder" or not is somewhat subjective and opinionated, for sure. But as someone diagnosed with ADHD, I often find that the expectations of modern society can be debilitating. Whether the disorder lies in me or in an unaccommodating society is an interesting question, but it is a separate one.

hosh 4y ago

SPD shares more similarities to Narcissitic Personality Disorder than it does with ADHD -- not in terms of effect and imposition on other people, but rather in the lived experience of self and other, self and world. I don't think SPD (or NPD) are something you can medicate.

plutonorm 4y ago
Perhaps long acting oxytocin.
- hosh 4y ago
  If we're going that route, I think it's more likely we'll see clinical outcomes with therupeutic use of psilosybin or MDMA. I don't think it is so much that the brain needs to be tweaked, but that experiencing self, other, and world in a different ways can transform those in a way that does not require ongoing medication.
kyleyeats 4y ago
They're also kinda opposites. The cure for NPD is isolation and the cure for SPD is being around people (agreed-- neither are in pill form yet). They both have immutable internal status, but the narcissist's is very low while the schizoid's is very high. The best example IMO of a cured narcissist is Larry Lawton, who faced a long period of isolation in prison. He's on Youtube.