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It seems like a fundamental issue is that there's no really no product differentiation - a Lyft's end result is the same as Uber (getting to your destination) s

It seems like a fundamental issue is that there's no really no product differentiation - a Lyft's end result is the same as Uber (getting to your destination) so the only path to winning is having the money to outspend your opponent. Now that Uber's cut out the bullshit with self-driving and endless expansion, and started to focus on winning in the US, I see a tough road ahead for Lyft.

treis 4y ago
It's a fair point, but Uber still does a lot of bullshit. Freight, Eats, Packages, Scooters, Public transport SaaS stuff, and probably others I don't know about. Plus, they're doing that stuff internationally. Uber might start to focus on winning the US but can they against a leaner, meaner, and more focused Lyft? It's also the classic bundled vs individual components debate. Uber is bundled and Lyft is a component. Usually there's room in the market for both.
- actionablefiber 4y ago
  Lyft's subsidiary Motivate also operates a decent number of bikeshare systems. I have no idea if it's a profitable venture for them - supposedly they're the "operating partner" which I guess means the actual owners pay them a fee to handle all the logistics while the owners themselves are responsible for the profit and loss of the system overall. Can anyone provide more detail here?
deepsun 4y ago
But how to get the money when VC money ended? The only way I see is to be more efficient on spending. Hint: taxi companies don't need 10k+ software engineers. So their market is a race to the bottom. Which is a indicator of an effective market. Only non-effective markets have large profit margins.
- uup 4y ago
  Both Uber and Lyft are public companies, so they can raise money on the stock market, selling bonds, convertible notes, etc.
  - spywaregorilla 4y ago
    For reference, uber now has a 3:1 ratio of debt to equity. Lyft is closer to 4.
- xwdv 4y ago
  Taxi companies don’t operate apps at global scales. Consider that each country needs their own specialized team of engineers to deal with its own unique problems. Then you need reliability engineers, you need engineers building administrative tooling, payments, security, so much shit. You really do need thousands of engineers.
  - deepsun 4y ago
    Actually no, there are companies [1] that sell whole ride-hailing infra, apps etc. Customers just customize them (logos/phones) and have their own Uber. [1] https://onde.app https://onde.app

treis 4y ago

It's a fair point, but Uber still does a lot of bullshit. Freight, Eats, Packages, Scooters, Public transport SaaS stuff, and probably others I don't know about. Plus, they're doing that stuff internationally. Uber might start to focus on winning the US but can they against a leaner, meaner, and more focused Lyft? It's also the classic bundled vs individual components debate. Uber is bundled and Lyft is a component. Usually there's room in the market for both.

actionablefiber 4y ago
Lyft's subsidiary Motivate also operates a decent number of bikeshare systems. I have no idea if it's a profitable venture for them - supposedly they're the "operating partner" which I guess means the actual owners pay them a fee to handle all the logistics while the owners themselves are responsible for the profit and loss of the system overall. Can anyone provide more detail here?

deepsun 4y ago

But how to get the money when VC money ended? The only way I see is to be more efficient on spending. Hint: taxi companies don't need 10k+ software engineers. So their market is a race to the bottom. Which is a indicator of an effective market. Only non-effective markets have large profit margins.

uup 4y ago
Both Uber and Lyft are public companies, so they can raise money on the stock market, selling bonds, convertible notes, etc.
- spywaregorilla 4y ago
  For reference, uber now has a 3:1 ratio of debt to equity. Lyft is closer to 4.
xwdv 4y ago
Taxi companies don’t operate apps at global scales. Consider that each country needs their own specialized team of engineers to deal with its own unique problems. Then you need reliability engineers, you need engineers building administrative tooling, payments, security, so much shit. You really do need thousands of engineers.
- deepsun 4y ago
  Actually no, there are companies [1] that sell whole ride-hailing infra, apps etc. Customers just customize them (logos/phones) and have their own Uber. [1] https://onde.app https://onde.app