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I love these, but I'm a bit crushed that there's no WiFi. I notice that that's a reoccurring thing with hobby electronics. It has taken Arduino's a long time

I love these, but I'm a bit crushed that there's no WiFi. I notice that that's a reoccurring thing with hobby electronics. It has taken Arduino's a long time to get boards that support WiFi and they are quite expensive. (comparatively) So I'm guessing there is some fundamental reason.. anybody know why? Does it have to do with getting licensed by the FCC or somesuch? Are the chips crazy expensive? It seems like the technology has been around long enough that it wouldn't be more than a dollar or two by now, but apparently that's not the case. ECEs, spare a clue?

jff 15y ago
Wifi is such a huge pain in the ass. Eliminating wifi will remove a significant headache--going with just Ethernet is a far easier proposition, as long as you don't go with on-board USB ethernet. Plus, for the stated goals, I don't think wifi is essential.
- nicpottier 15y ago
  Yes, I gathered it is a pain in the ass, but I was hoping for a bit of insight as to WHY exactly. Care to elaborate?
  - jff 15y ago
    It's a matter of dealing with WPA and such. There's a reason why Plan 9 doesn't have support for anything past WEP, and why even on Linux, wifi support can be kinda iffy. If you don't offer wifi, there's no let-down when it doesn't work properly :)
jbermudes 15y ago
IANAECE but to me there's 2 issues: 1. FCC Licensing: There is an issue with FCC licensing in that you have to make sure your equipment has proper shielding, broadcasts in the right frequencies, etc. As long as the thing is considered one unit physically, even if the radio parts aren't yours and were already certified, it still has to be certified. Laptop manufacturers can get away without it by having the wireless card be a separate board that plugs into a slot under the laptop. Could Raspberry Pi do the same? Perhaps, but that's still a change of design, possible extra costs in design/layout, software, and parts. 2. Software: As anyone who's used linux for over a few years can attest, much of the firmware of wifi chips are a sort of black box and making software to work with a given chip is a nightmare unless you are working with the manufacturer. Why they didn't partner with a particular chipset manufacturer could boil down to price. They got lucky with the cheap licensing for the CPU and perhaps couldn't get something similar with wifi or didn't feel that it was worth the effort for all the extra space, cost, and design issues for this first version.
wolf550e 15y ago
They suggest using a USB wifi thingy. Their forum has a list of models that should work with ARM chips running linux.
follower 15y ago
The other issue with RF certification is related to production volume--the certification costs related to WiFi in your phone/laptop is spread over millions of units. For comparatively low volume standalone WiFi modules the same cost is more likely to be spread over some multiple of thousands.
uberalex 15y ago
I found it particularly surprising because Broadcom are supporting the project so enthusiastically.

jff 15y ago

Wifi is such a huge pain in the ass. Eliminating wifi will remove a significant headache--going with just Ethernet is a far easier proposition, as long as you don't go with on-board USB ethernet. Plus, for the stated goals, I don't think wifi is essential.

nicpottier 15y ago
Yes, I gathered it is a pain in the ass, but I was hoping for a bit of insight as to WHY exactly. Care to elaborate?
- jff 15y ago
  It's a matter of dealing with WPA and such. There's a reason why Plan 9 doesn't have support for anything past WEP, and why even on Linux, wifi support can be kinda iffy. If you don't offer wifi, there's no let-down when it doesn't work properly :)

jbermudes 15y ago

IANAECE but to me there's 2 issues: 1. FCC Licensing: There is an issue with FCC licensing in that you have to make sure your equipment has proper shielding, broadcasts in the right frequencies, etc. As long as the thing is considered one unit physically, even if the radio parts aren't yours and were already certified, it still has to be certified. Laptop manufacturers can get away without it by having the wireless card be a separate board that plugs into a slot under the laptop. Could Raspberry Pi do the same? Perhaps, but that's still a change of design, possible extra costs in design/layout, software, and parts. 2. Software: As anyone who's used linux for over a few years can attest, much of the firmware of wifi chips are a sort of black box and making software to work with a given chip is a nightmare unless you are working with the manufacturer. Why they didn't partner with a particular chipset manufacturer could boil down to price. They got lucky with the cheap licensing for the CPU and perhaps couldn't get something similar with wifi or didn't feel that it was worth the effort for all the extra space, cost, and design issues for this first version.

wolf550e 15y ago

They suggest using a USB wifi thingy. Their forum has a list of models that should work with ARM chips running linux.

follower 15y ago

The other issue with RF certification is related to production volume--the certification costs related to WiFi in your phone/laptop is spread over millions of units. For comparatively low volume standalone WiFi modules the same cost is more likely to be spread over some multiple of thousands.

uberalex 15y ago

I found it particularly surprising because Broadcom are supporting the project so enthusiastically.