7 ms·

I live by an edict. If you don’t get what you want: it’s due to your decisions. I prioritized flexibility and that’s what I have. You can do the same!

A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
Hmm. I am taking this comment at face value and not as a sarcastic response. Even if you prioritize flexibility, if your position is at the bottom of the totem pole, you will find it exceedingly difficult to get even minute changes in it. Those employees are increasingly monitored to the point I would not have accepted as a kid, but it seems a more and more common practice today. I guess what I am saying is that what you do matters, but not nearly as much as you give it credit for. Some of it is just dumb luck.
- doix 4y ago
  I mean you can say the luck argument about literally everything. It's not a reason to dismiss making choices. Not having kids/pets is a huge choice to make to have flexibility. If you don't have dependents you don't need to spend time looking after them. You also don't need to make as much money so you can take a lower paying job. By being in the position to take a lower paying job, you can negotiate more flexibility etc. Obviously that doesn't apply if you were forced to drop out of highschool to get a minimum wage job to take care of your sick parents/siblings. Some people are less lucky than others, but I'd be willing to bet that a large percentage of HN readers that finds themselves with no flexibility have made many choices to end up where they are.
  - A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
    On average, as related to HN, you are probably not wrong. I still hate averages, because they tend to hide the reality ( and individual plight ) based on its extremes. I have no real data to back it up other than anecdata. I count myself as ridiculously lucky that I am where I am doing what I do. Here I am mid-day, discussing non-work related items in my down time. I have the flexibility ( and a pet and a kid although that is basically like having two kids ), but I am unable to dismiss the idea that it is not just me factor that got me to that point. Looking back, there were tons of things that could have gone wrong that would put me on the wrong track ( and as is often with life, some things did ). Otoh, I am not that much smarter than my sister and yet we are in very different places despite having the same upbringing, access and so on. You could argue that she is not on HN, but I would say that is a self-selecting process..
    - doix 4y ago
      Like the sibling comment, I feel like we are talking about different things. You're talking about right and wrong paths and careers. I'm talking about choices like kids, prioritizing salary over flexibility etc. I am not arguing that people in tech are there purely based on merit and no luck. I am saying people that are already in tech make choices that give them more or less flexibility. Chasing a job at FAANG to get a massive salary and then using the salary to get an expensive car and massive mortgage is the wrong choice if you want flexibility. But it probably is the right choice if you want an expensive car and expensive house.
      - A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
        Ahh, yes. Sorry. It seems I misread the original post. Thank you for the clarification. I am in agreement with what you wrote immediately above.
        doix 4y ago
        No need to apologize! All good, I got the feeling we were in agreement and I was just explaining my point poorly.
  - Bakary 4y ago
    This sort of approach sounds useful on paper. People should indeed make better choices. In reality, however, this solves nothing because we are looking at societal problems as varied and complex as climate change, obesity, rising house prices, degree inflation, regular inflation, global uncertainty, constant digital surveillance, and so on. Even a person who has made "good" choices such as becoming a SWE is still at the mercy of macroeconomic changes. Maybe next year's AI will nuke front end work just like it's nuking other white collar job markets. Maybe the market will by nuked by actual nukes. The modern day careers depend on so many conditions that are outside of our control and can't be fixed on an individual level, even if it's still a good idea to make good choices.
    - doix 4y ago
      I feel like we are talking about different things. I'm talking about not having kids/pets (which is applicable to everyone) as a choice to make for more flexibility where as you are talking about careers. Also you're talking about good VS bad choices. I don't think having kids is necessarily bad or good, it just depends on what you want or priorities are.
      - Bakary 4y ago
        Kids/pets are good example as it would make my argument a bit clearer. Today we have a sizeable portion of the population that has no dependents, made good choices (had an education, worked hard etc.) AND is still stuck financially and professionally to the point where they can't really have that much flexibility or make many more tradeoffs. It's a lot worse in countries like China or Korea but it's still pretty bad in the West. There is a reason why fertility rates are plummeting, and it goes beyond the classic demographic model of higher development for lower fertility. In other words, though it's true that outcomes are linked to choices, just the ability to make real choices (flexibility vs. salary or family, to name one) is predicated on a large dose of prior luck.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
- dijonman2 4y ago
  I feel sorry for you if you think I am being sarcastic. The internet is an unhealthy place to live. Travel more. Follow your passion. Forget labels and work hard to get what you want. Work isn’t 9-5. It’s 24/7, who you work for changes. Treat yourself like a friend who you are looking out for.
- dijonman2 4y ago
  Being successful isn’t about knowing CS. It’s about navigating relationships. Tech skills are now table stakes. Do yourself a favor and diversify your skills. I was dealt a shitty hand and rose above it. Emotional and sexual abuse. I blame no one. I spent a decade reading and studying psychology to rise above it. I’ve shared too much. Do what you will with my advice. The common denominator is my perseverance to survive. I made a choice to follow something better instead of losing hope. It will get better through constant incremental improvements. If you have no hope find other people with the same problem. Talk to them. Hire a life coach. Literally do anything other than give up or feel outrage and cast hate.
PuppyTailWags 4y ago
> If you don’t get what you want: it’s due to your decisions. Asking genuinely, because I struggle with determining how much of what I don't get can be attributed to me: What if I wanted to be healthy, but have $<any number of chronic, debilitating conditions with no clear identified cause, mechanism, and or cure>? I recently listened to a podcast where two people try to follow life-advice books and determine if it actually helped them, and one of the hosts had an extremely distressing time trying to attribute why her abnormal mammogram result wasn't being followed up on by her doctor, despite daily calls for two weeks, was something that was due to her decisions. [How does this apply to being abused as a child? Being a domestic abuse survivor? Being the victim of a hate crime, displaced due to war or other disaster?]
- ponow 4y ago
  The choice is in how to think about and respond to external conditions, not in denying the existence of external conditions.
  - PuppyTailWags 4y ago
    Yes, I'm asking precisely how to think about external circumstances. If your thinking is that outcomes are because of your decisions, it means if a doctor blows you off after a cancer screening returns abnormal results you must've decided something to result in this. The podcaster decided the only logic there is that if you didn't want the doctor to blow you off you shouldn't have decided to proactively screen yourself for cancer. Personally, I struggled with thinking about events in my life and my decisions leading to those events precisely because of seeing other people try to take that logic and apply it in good faith, resulting in horrible conclusions. That someone could've prevented their fibromyalgia and therefore they are at fault for getting sick. That someone's child abuse was something they need to take responsibility about.
    - cxr 4y ago
      Don't worry too much about trying to make sense of that advice. It's a bad take that only comes from people who've had the privilege of all of the problems they've known in life being self-inflicted[1]. (That's for the original commenter. The person you're responding to now is engaging in a major moving of the goalposts.) Here's what I've been prone to tell people instead: you know how to always get what you want—always? It's by wanting what you're going to get. Some people misunderstand this. It's not about settling or doing nothing. It's rather the opposite. It's to get people to go through the process of interrogating themselves about their wants in a way that engages the logical part of their brain—which is ultimately most likely to be the thing that leads to working out a path to whatever that want is, so long as it's reasonable to think that they can actually get it. In the extreme case you present: "Is it unreasonable for me to want to the abuse to stop?" The answer, of course, is an emphatic no. There's no need to stop wanting that. In figuring out whether it is reasonable or unreasonable, the question becomes: what is required in order to actually get it? 1. Example <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25468799 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25468799>
another_story 4y ago
Yah, when I visited North Korea I asked them why didn't they just decide not to live there, grow more food or get a better job? I say maybe they should travel a bit in order to broaden their perspective on life. Try meditation or use a pomodoro timer to get focused! Get your head straight and prioritize that flexible lifestyle and the options are endless!
- aliswe 4y ago
  What was their answer?

A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago

Hmm. I am taking this comment at face value and not as a sarcastic response. Even if you prioritize flexibility, if your position is at the bottom of the totem pole, you will find it exceedingly difficult to get even minute changes in it. Those employees are increasingly monitored to the point I would not have accepted as a kid, but it seems a more and more common practice today. I guess what I am saying is that what you do matters, but not nearly as much as you give it credit for. Some of it is just dumb luck.

doix 4y ago
I mean you can say the luck argument about literally everything. It's not a reason to dismiss making choices. Not having kids/pets is a huge choice to make to have flexibility. If you don't have dependents you don't need to spend time looking after them. You also don't need to make as much money so you can take a lower paying job. By being in the position to take a lower paying job, you can negotiate more flexibility etc. Obviously that doesn't apply if you were forced to drop out of highschool to get a minimum wage job to take care of your sick parents/siblings. Some people are less lucky than others, but I'd be willing to bet that a large percentage of HN readers that finds themselves with no flexibility have made many choices to end up where they are.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
  On average, as related to HN, you are probably not wrong. I still hate averages, because they tend to hide the reality ( and individual plight ) based on its extremes. I have no real data to back it up other than anecdata. I count myself as ridiculously lucky that I am where I am doing what I do. Here I am mid-day, discussing non-work related items in my down time. I have the flexibility ( and a pet and a kid although that is basically like having two kids ), but I am unable to dismiss the idea that it is not just me factor that got me to that point. Looking back, there were tons of things that could have gone wrong that would put me on the wrong track ( and as is often with life, some things did ). Otoh, I am not that much smarter than my sister and yet we are in very different places despite having the same upbringing, access and so on. You could argue that she is not on HN, but I would say that is a self-selecting process..
  - doix 4y ago
    Like the sibling comment, I feel like we are talking about different things. You're talking about right and wrong paths and careers. I'm talking about choices like kids, prioritizing salary over flexibility etc. I am not arguing that people in tech are there purely based on merit and no luck. I am saying people that are already in tech make choices that give them more or less flexibility. Chasing a job at FAANG to get a massive salary and then using the salary to get an expensive car and massive mortgage is the wrong choice if you want flexibility. But it probably is the right choice if you want an expensive car and expensive house.
    - A4ET8a8uTh0 4y ago
      Ahh, yes. Sorry. It seems I misread the original post. Thank you for the clarification. I am in agreement with what you wrote immediately above.
      - doix 4y ago
        No need to apologize! All good, I got the feeling we were in agreement and I was just explaining my point poorly.
- Bakary 4y ago
  This sort of approach sounds useful on paper. People should indeed make better choices. In reality, however, this solves nothing because we are looking at societal problems as varied and complex as climate change, obesity, rising house prices, degree inflation, regular inflation, global uncertainty, constant digital surveillance, and so on. Even a person who has made "good" choices such as becoming a SWE is still at the mercy of macroeconomic changes. Maybe next year's AI will nuke front end work just like it's nuking other white collar job markets. Maybe the market will by nuked by actual nukes. The modern day careers depend on so many conditions that are outside of our control and can't be fixed on an individual level, even if it's still a good idea to make good choices.
  - doix 4y ago
    I feel like we are talking about different things. I'm talking about not having kids/pets (which is applicable to everyone) as a choice to make for more flexibility where as you are talking about careers. Also you're talking about good VS bad choices. I don't think having kids is necessarily bad or good, it just depends on what you want or priorities are.
    - Bakary 4y ago
      Kids/pets are good example as it would make my argument a bit clearer. Today we have a sizeable portion of the population that has no dependents, made good choices (had an education, worked hard etc.) AND is still stuck financially and professionally to the point where they can't really have that much flexibility or make many more tradeoffs. It's a lot worse in countries like China or Korea but it's still pretty bad in the West. There is a reason why fertility rates are plummeting, and it goes beyond the classic demographic model of higher development for lower fertility. In other words, though it's true that outcomes are linked to choices, just the ability to make real choices (flexibility vs. salary or family, to name one) is predicated on a large dose of prior luck.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
dijonman2 4y ago
I feel sorry for you if you think I am being sarcastic. The internet is an unhealthy place to live. Travel more. Follow your passion. Forget labels and work hard to get what you want. Work isn’t 9-5. It’s 24/7, who you work for changes. Treat yourself like a friend who you are looking out for.
dijonman2 4y ago
Being successful isn’t about knowing CS. It’s about navigating relationships. Tech skills are now table stakes. Do yourself a favor and diversify your skills. I was dealt a shitty hand and rose above it. Emotional and sexual abuse. I blame no one. I spent a decade reading and studying psychology to rise above it. I’ve shared too much. Do what you will with my advice. The common denominator is my perseverance to survive. I made a choice to follow something better instead of losing hope. It will get better through constant incremental improvements. If you have no hope find other people with the same problem. Talk to them. Hire a life coach. Literally do anything other than give up or feel outrage and cast hate.

PuppyTailWags 4y ago

> If you don’t get what you want: it’s due to your decisions. Asking genuinely, because I struggle with determining how much of what I don't get can be attributed to me: What if I wanted to be healthy, but have $<any number of chronic, debilitating conditions with no clear identified cause, mechanism, and or cure>? I recently listened to a podcast where two people try to follow life-advice books and determine if it actually helped them, and one of the hosts had an extremely distressing time trying to attribute why her abnormal mammogram result wasn't being followed up on by her doctor, despite daily calls for two weeks, was something that was due to her decisions. [How does this apply to being abused as a child? Being a domestic abuse survivor? Being the victim of a hate crime, displaced due to war or other disaster?]

ponow 4y ago
The choice is in how to think about and respond to external conditions, not in denying the existence of external conditions.
- PuppyTailWags 4y ago
  Yes, I'm asking precisely how to think about external circumstances. If your thinking is that outcomes are because of your decisions, it means if a doctor blows you off after a cancer screening returns abnormal results you must've decided something to result in this. The podcaster decided the only logic there is that if you didn't want the doctor to blow you off you shouldn't have decided to proactively screen yourself for cancer. Personally, I struggled with thinking about events in my life and my decisions leading to those events precisely because of seeing other people try to take that logic and apply it in good faith, resulting in horrible conclusions. That someone could've prevented their fibromyalgia and therefore they are at fault for getting sick. That someone's child abuse was something they need to take responsibility about.
  - cxr 4y ago
    Don't worry too much about trying to make sense of that advice. It's a bad take that only comes from people who've had the privilege of all of the problems they've known in life being self-inflicted[1]. (That's for the original commenter. The person you're responding to now is engaging in a major moving of the goalposts.) Here's what I've been prone to tell people instead: you know how to always get what you want—always? It's by wanting what you're going to get. Some people misunderstand this. It's not about settling or doing nothing. It's rather the opposite. It's to get people to go through the process of interrogating themselves about their wants in a way that engages the logical part of their brain—which is ultimately most likely to be the thing that leads to working out a path to whatever that want is, so long as it's reasonable to think that they can actually get it. In the extreme case you present: "Is it unreasonable for me to want to the abuse to stop?" The answer, of course, is an emphatic no. There's no need to stop wanting that. In figuring out whether it is reasonable or unreasonable, the question becomes: what is required in order to actually get it? 1. Example <https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25468799 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25468799>

another_story 4y ago

Yah, when I visited North Korea I asked them why didn't they just decide not to live there, grow more food or get a better job? I say maybe they should travel a bit in order to broaden their perspective on life. Try meditation or use a pomodoro timer to get focused! Get your head straight and prioritize that flexible lifestyle and the options are endless!

aliswe 4y ago
What was their answer?