2 ms·

First of all, yes I rather get irrelevant ads than being targeted. If you worked in certain industries you know that some advertisers are extremely cynical, and

First of all, yes I rather get irrelevant ads than being targeted. If you worked in certain industries you know that some advertisers are extremely cynical, and I simply don't want to be in a constant state of mental warfare against these people. This has a real effect on stress and in my opinion is worse than seeing an irrelevant ad. At least I know this ad isn't tracking and profiling me. There is also the concept of identity, and specifically, who owns your identity. If you are the owner of your own identity, including interests, wants and needs, then no company should be allowed to create a profile of your identity ("shadow profile") without your permission. However, the big ad corporations like Google and Facebook (and recently TikTok) all create shadow profiles for you, like it or not, with or without your consent. Why are they allowed to do this? Should I not be paid if my unique identity is being used and monetized?

whimsicalism 4y ago
This "ownership of identity" complaint makes no sense to me. You are the owner of your identity, but I would still be free to think you are an asshole if I so wanted (I don't, to be clear, just an example :) ) Making inferences about you doesn't mean you "own" your identity less.
- magic_hamster 4y ago
  Of course you can think what you like of me, but how did you obtain this opinion? In all likelihood, from a personal interaction - perhaps you met me or replied to my misguided comments. Now imagine a person constantly badgering you for personal information that you don't want to share, and then using whatever info they found to manipulate you. There's a law against that, it's harassment, nobody wants this. But when a machine does it, it's supposedly okay. I would consider consenting to being tracked and offered personalized ads if I got paid to see these ads. If I am the owner of my identity, I should be the one monetizing it. Why would I agree some corporation should make money off of my very being? I resent that. Either don't profile me (especially against my will) or compensate me. Getting paid for your thoughts is not something new. People are constantly being paid to take part in focus groups, AB testing, polls and surveys. So why not pay you for the right to use this information in advertising?
  - whimsicalism 4y ago
    > imagine a person constantly badgering you for personal information that you don't want to share, and then using whatever info they found to manipulate you. There's a law against that, it's harassment, nobody wants this. But when a machine does it, it's supposedly okay. Badgering you for personal information? You are freely choosing to go on their site and interact with it how you want. The comparison with "harassment" seems extremely hyperbolic. > So why not pay you for the right to use this information in advertising? You're being compensated by using their free product, which you are free to not use.
    - magic_hamster 4y ago
      > You are freely choosing to go on their site and interact with it how you want. Only that the entire effort of collecting your data and profiling you happens without you being able to notice, stop or interfere (unless using some extension or sometimes a specific browser). It's more akin to you visiting public places (the visible websites) while a creepy stalker follows your every move and tries to profile you. This might be a form of harassment, but even if it isn't, I rather avoid this situation. > You're being compensated by using their free product, which you are free to not use. You might not be awere of how some of this works then. TikTok can seemingly track users visiting WebMD and Weight Watchers [1]. You can visit the webpage of your church, a clinic or even some municipal authorities and still get shadow profiled. And TikTok is new to this. Imagine the data collected by Google and Facebook. We're not talking about visiting websites like YouTube where you enjoy a "free product". We're talking about virtually any website you visit including some essential services. [1] https://www.consumerreports.org/electronics-computers/privacy/tiktok-tracks-you-across-the-web-even-if-you-dont-use-app-a4383537813/ https://www.consumerreports.org/electronics-computers/privac...

whimsicalism 4y ago

This "ownership of identity" complaint makes no sense to me. You are the owner of your identity, but I would still be free to think you are an asshole if I so wanted (I don't, to be clear, just an example :) ) Making inferences about you doesn't mean you "own" your identity less.

magic_hamster 4y ago
Of course you can think what you like of me, but how did you obtain this opinion? In all likelihood, from a personal interaction - perhaps you met me or replied to my misguided comments. Now imagine a person constantly badgering you for personal information that you don't want to share, and then using whatever info they found to manipulate you. There's a law against that, it's harassment, nobody wants this. But when a machine does it, it's supposedly okay. I would consider consenting to being tracked and offered personalized ads if I got paid to see these ads. If I am the owner of my identity, I should be the one monetizing it. Why would I agree some corporation should make money off of my very being? I resent that. Either don't profile me (especially against my will) or compensate me. Getting paid for your thoughts is not something new. People are constantly being paid to take part in focus groups, AB testing, polls and surveys. So why not pay you for the right to use this information in advertising?
- whimsicalism 4y ago
  > imagine a person constantly badgering you for personal information that you don't want to share, and then using whatever info they found to manipulate you. There's a law against that, it's harassment, nobody wants this. But when a machine does it, it's supposedly okay. Badgering you for personal information? You are freely choosing to go on their site and interact with it how you want. The comparison with "harassment" seems extremely hyperbolic. > So why not pay you for the right to use this information in advertising? You're being compensated by using their free product, which you are free to not use.
  - magic_hamster 4y ago
    > You are freely choosing to go on their site and interact with it how you want. Only that the entire effort of collecting your data and profiling you happens without you being able to notice, stop or interfere (unless using some extension or sometimes a specific browser). It's more akin to you visiting public places (the visible websites) while a creepy stalker follows your every move and tries to profile you. This might be a form of harassment, but even if it isn't, I rather avoid this situation. > You're being compensated by using their free product, which you are free to not use. You might not be awere of how some of this works then. TikTok can seemingly track users visiting WebMD and Weight Watchers [1]. You can visit the webpage of your church, a clinic or even some municipal authorities and still get shadow profiled. And TikTok is new to this. Imagine the data collected by Google and Facebook. We're not talking about visiting websites like YouTube where you enjoy a "free product". We're talking about virtually any website you visit including some essential services. [1] https://www.consumerreports.org/electronics-computers/privacy/tiktok-tracks-you-across-the-web-even-if-you-dont-use-app-a4383537813/ https://www.consumerreports.org/electronics-computers/privac...