5 ms·

Can't heat off solar. Not meaningfully in a cold climate.

euroderf 4y ago
Finland is trying heat storage - like the "sand battery" - and should be pushing heat pumps much, much harder than it is.
- dcdc123 4y ago
  There is something similar [1] in Nevada, USA that uses molten salt to store energy. I drove through a few months ago and was blown away by it. The top of the tower was so bright that I could see it from the moment it started to crest the horizon. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crescent_Dunes_Solar_Energy_Project https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crescent_Dunes_Solar_Energy_Pr...
atemerev 4y ago
Nuclear is pure heat, though.
- vorpalhex 4y ago
  How do you transfer that heat? Every conversion is lossy.
  - atemerev 4y ago
    Small modular reactors being closer to consumers, or, well, just excess electricity (since nuclear generates no CO2, it is trivial to do overprovision).
  - senectus1 4y ago
    not a nuclear proponent. but the maxim "don't let perfect be the enemy of good". just because its lossy doesn't mean we can the idea.
ceejayoz 4y ago
98% of Norway's energy comes from renewable sources.
- haunter 4y ago
  Oh we just need to build some fjords! How come we didn't think about that? 96% of the renewable energy comes from hydropower https://www.regjeringen.no/en/topics/energy/renewable-energy/renewable-energy-production-in-norway/id2343462/ https://www.regjeringen.no/en/topics/energy/renewable-energy...
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    Norway doesn't generate power from fjords. Cold climates have a variety of renewable energy options; wind, solar, hydro, geothermal, etc. If solar and wind can be used in Greenland (https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-01189-x https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-01189-x), they can be used virtually anywhere.
    - haunter 4y ago
      >If solar and wind can be used in Greenland, they can be used virtually anywhere. Population: 57,000. Not even comparable to most countries at all
      - ceejayoz 4y ago
        The claim is that solar can't work in cold climates. That's demonstrably untrue. (The original upthread post also said renewables, not just solar, so the objections are doubly silly.)
        JoeAltmaier 4y ago
        Cold climates are often at high latitudes. The sun is oblique at those latitudes. So solar is at it's most inefficient there. An argument can be made that solar is not a good choice in 'cold climates'
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
0xbadcafebee 4y ago
Solar panels gain efficiency in the cold. In winter there is less sunlight so they produce less power overall (40-60%), but you could double up the panels or add alternative energy generating methods.
- yodelshady 4y ago
  - ceejayoz 4y ago
    I went to https://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/pvg_tools/en/tools.html https://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/pvg_tools/en/tools.html, clicked on southern UK, and it gave me "Total loss [%]: -18.6". Changes in output due to: Angle of incidence [%]: -3.08 Spectral effects [%]: 1.48 Temperature and low irradiance [%]: -3.77 I think you’ve mixed up total efficiency with efficiency loss.
  - olddustytrail 4y ago
    No they aren't; don't be daft. Power companies and grid operators do their own research. They're not reading HN comments and blindly following their advice. Use some common sense. And there is plenty of solar in Scotland so it's clearly not that bad.
pstuart 4y ago
It needs to be addressed from every angle simultaneously. Wind/solar/geothermal/smart grid/heat pumps/efficiency upgrades/etc. It's a solvable problem if we all agreed to do it.

Finland is trying heat storage - like the "sand battery" - and should be pushing heat pumps much, much harder than it is.

dcdc123 4y ago
There is something similar [1] in Nevada, USA that uses molten salt to store energy. I drove through a few months ago and was blown away by it. The top of the tower was so bright that I could see it from the moment it started to crest the horizon. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crescent_Dunes_Solar_Energy_Project https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crescent_Dunes_Solar_Energy_Pr...

atemerev 4y ago

Nuclear is pure heat, though.

vorpalhex 4y ago
How do you transfer that heat? Every conversion is lossy.
- atemerev 4y ago
  Small modular reactors being closer to consumers, or, well, just excess electricity (since nuclear generates no CO2, it is trivial to do overprovision).
- senectus1 4y ago
  not a nuclear proponent. but the maxim "don't let perfect be the enemy of good". just because its lossy doesn't mean we can the idea.

ceejayoz 4y ago

98% of Norway's energy comes from renewable sources.

haunter 4y ago
Oh we just need to build some fjords! How come we didn't think about that? 96% of the renewable energy comes from hydropower https://www.regjeringen.no/en/topics/energy/renewable-energy/renewable-energy-production-in-norway/id2343462/ https://www.regjeringen.no/en/topics/energy/renewable-energy...
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  Norway doesn't generate power from fjords. Cold climates have a variety of renewable energy options; wind, solar, hydro, geothermal, etc. If solar and wind can be used in Greenland (https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-01189-x https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-01189-x), they can be used virtually anywhere.
  - haunter 4y ago
    >If solar and wind can be used in Greenland, they can be used virtually anywhere. Population: 57,000. Not even comparable to most countries at all
    - ceejayoz 4y ago
      The claim is that solar can't work in cold climates. That's demonstrably untrue. (The original upthread post also said renewables, not just solar, so the objections are doubly silly.)
      - JoeAltmaier 4y ago
        Cold climates are often at high latitudes. The sun is oblique at those latitudes. So solar is at it's most inefficient there. An argument can be made that solar is not a good choice in 'cold climates'

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

0xbadcafebee 4y ago

Solar panels gain efficiency in the cold. In winter there is less sunlight so they produce less power overall (40-60%), but you could double up the panels or add alternative energy generating methods.

yodelshady 4y ago
- ceejayoz 4y ago
  I went to https://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/pvg_tools/en/tools.html https://re.jrc.ec.europa.eu/pvg_tools/en/tools.html, clicked on southern UK, and it gave me "Total loss [%]: -18.6". Changes in output due to: Angle of incidence [%]: -3.08 Spectral effects [%]: 1.48 Temperature and low irradiance [%]: -3.77 I think you’ve mixed up total efficiency with efficiency loss.
- olddustytrail 4y ago
  No they aren't; don't be daft. Power companies and grid operators do their own research. They're not reading HN comments and blindly following their advice. Use some common sense. And there is plenty of solar in Scotland so it's clearly not that bad.

pstuart 4y ago

It needs to be addressed from every angle simultaneously. Wind/solar/geothermal/smart grid/heat pumps/efficiency upgrades/etc. It's a solvable problem if we all agreed to do it.