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> College isn't trade school and I'll die on that hill. Yup. Assuming every CS undergrad is becoming a software engineer is extremely presumptive. There shoul

> College isn't trade school and I'll die on that hill. Yup. Assuming every CS undergrad is becoming a software engineer is extremely presumptive. There should be options to pursue a Software Engineering focus but we shouldn't water down CS departments by disregarding the hard stuff. My alma mater basically has two options: CompSci or Business Technology. CS works in C++ mainly. Business Technology works in C#. Everyone who likes computers but couldn't hack it at theory would move over to the Business Technology major.

jbluepolarbear 4y ago
This is true and unfortunately a lot of CS grads think that they’ll get a programming job right out of college, but fall short of candidates that took a 6 month bootcamp. It also hurt that most graduates I’ve interviewed can’t program anything more than a simple fizz buzz. Although not strictly CS, I think CS needs to teach codebase design and more on how to use/create apis.
- duped 4y ago
  That's the opposite take that I think myself and the comment you're replying to is getting at. Boot camp devs are at a massive disadvantage ime, so much so they're soft banned from hiring pipelines without tons of work experience from most places that I've worked.
  - jbluepolarbear 4y ago
    Is it though? They’re saying CS isn’t a software engineering degree and doesn’t teach you how to make business software. Bootcamp devs on the other hand are taught how to make software as well as using a plethora of apis and frameworks. Presence of a degree does not guarantee a successful candidate nor does a bootcamp certificate guarantee unsuccessful one. I don’t have a degree and I’ve been a successful, high performing software engineer for over a decade.
    - philomath_mn 4y ago
      Agreed, neither a 4 yr degree nor a bootcamp is a guarantee of success. But one of the biggest things I am looking for out of new grads is base-level systems thinking capabilities. I'd rather have that than dev-skills, and, ime, CS grads tend to be more likely to be trained in that way (but every candidate is unique). But I think bootcamps are at a disadvantage in such comparisons because they tend to be so accelerated -- I wonder what a good 2 year bootcamp curriculum would look like.
      - jbluepolarbear 4y ago
        I guess it’s different requirements. I’d rather a candidate with dev-skills. I haven’t seen any correlation of cs grads being easier to teach. It’s the opposite in my experience; a candidate with dev skills is likely to pick up systems design faster than someone with none.

jbluepolarbear 4y ago

This is true and unfortunately a lot of CS grads think that they’ll get a programming job right out of college, but fall short of candidates that took a 6 month bootcamp. It also hurt that most graduates I’ve interviewed can’t program anything more than a simple fizz buzz. Although not strictly CS, I think CS needs to teach codebase design and more on how to use/create apis.

duped 4y ago
That's the opposite take that I think myself and the comment you're replying to is getting at. Boot camp devs are at a massive disadvantage ime, so much so they're soft banned from hiring pipelines without tons of work experience from most places that I've worked.
- jbluepolarbear 4y ago
  Is it though? They’re saying CS isn’t a software engineering degree and doesn’t teach you how to make business software. Bootcamp devs on the other hand are taught how to make software as well as using a plethora of apis and frameworks. Presence of a degree does not guarantee a successful candidate nor does a bootcamp certificate guarantee unsuccessful one. I don’t have a degree and I’ve been a successful, high performing software engineer for over a decade.
  - philomath_mn 4y ago
    Agreed, neither a 4 yr degree nor a bootcamp is a guarantee of success. But one of the biggest things I am looking for out of new grads is base-level systems thinking capabilities. I'd rather have that than dev-skills, and, ime, CS grads tend to be more likely to be trained in that way (but every candidate is unique). But I think bootcamps are at a disadvantage in such comparisons because they tend to be so accelerated -- I wonder what a good 2 year bootcamp curriculum would look like.
    - jbluepolarbear 4y ago
      I guess it’s different requirements. I’d rather a candidate with dev-skills. I haven’t seen any correlation of cs grads being easier to teach. It’s the opposite in my experience; a candidate with dev skills is likely to pick up systems design faster than someone with none.