4 ms·

Why are so few of the many capable people, able to farm?

shagie 4y ago
Starting up a farm (even a hobby farm) is an enormous capital investment. https://www.fsa.usda.gov/programs-and-services/farm-loan-programs/beginning-farmers-and-ranchers-loans/index https://www.fsa.usda.gov/programs-and-services/farm-loan-pro... and https://www.farmers.gov/loans https://www.farmers.gov/loans > Farm Ownership Loans can be used to purchase or expand a farm or ranch. This loan can help with paying closing costs, constructing or improving buildings on the farm, or to help conserve and protect soil and water resources. > USDA’s Farm Service Agency offers up to $600,000 for eligible borrowers through Farm Ownership Loans. > Farm Operating Loans can be used to purchase livestock, seed and equipment. It can also cover farm operating costs and family living expenses while a farm gets up and running. > USDA’s Farm Service Agency offers up to $400,000 for eligible borrowers through Farm Operating Loans. Aside from the "grow things" there is an enormous amount of business sense and domain knowledge (what to grow when, how to fix that thing now, does this other thing need fixing?) that is needed to accompany it.
- HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
  Technically yes, but you can do it on the small (for a hobby farm anyway). You could start a small commercial farm, but you'd basically have bought yourself a sub-minimum wage job. I live on a horse farm and when we bought the property it didn't really cost that much more than a nice house in the suburbs. My 10 acres and a large new house cost far less than a lot of small houses on tiny lots in places like Seattle or SF. If we had wanted to be farther out (I'm about a 50 minute commute to Minneapolis), we could have gotten more land for even less. The major adjustments are (a) it's very difficult to take a vacation, (b) the amount of income that goes towards taking care of animals and (c) the work never ends (see [a] above). Besides that, it's all peachy :-)
rybosworld 4y ago
It's extremely hard to compete with the major farming conglomerates for one thing.
- eppp 4y ago
  You could easily raise goats without competing. They dont take up much room and there is a market for them. You just won't make much money. Like farming in general.
  - shagie 4y ago
    http://www.goatops.com http://www.goatops.com The issue is scaling. In order to make enough to live off of the income generated by the goats, you need a dozen goats, which themselves need food, shelter, and medical care. And for dairy goats, you also need the equipment for milking.
    - HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
      A dozen goats is not a lot. Shelter you can build yourself and you just need enough so they have an escape from the sun & snow. Farmers do most of the medical care themselves except for the rare instances where you need to call the vet, e.g., we just had to put a horse down a couple of weeks ago. Food is the most important one because it's an non-stop expense, but it's not unmanageable since it scales directly with the number of animals.
      - shagie 4y ago
        That roughly agrees with my back of the envelope math. A dozen dairy goats should be able to provide about $80k/year and it doesn't seem like they'd need too much room (my parents house in the country has enough land out back to do this and the neighbors are far enough away to not complain about goats... and, well, the neighbors have cows and so aren't likely to complain in any case - this isn't an option for someone living in the suburbs though). Still, animal husbandry isn't something for me. It's not the animals, but rather the business side of it that is at issue. http://www.cs.uni.edu/%7Ewallingf/blog/archives/monthly/2018-10.html#e2018-10-21T09_53_29.htm http://www.cs.uni.edu/%7Ewallingf/blog/archives/monthly/2018... / https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26209541 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26209541 (and my commentary on it https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26215448 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26215448 )
hristov 4y ago
It is not about ability, it is about opportunity. As automation and chemistry overtakes farming there is smaller and smaller demand for people.
odrekf 4y ago
A lot of the knowledge required to farm has been lost with big Ag. Try finding someone who actually knows how to do the job's definition. Things like harvesting seeds... Farmers just buy them from the store, and then complain about how farming is getting so expensive. They have become consumers/slaves, with only big Ag, big Oil, and big Pharma as the winners (at the expense of everyone's health and everyone's future).
- loufe 4y ago
  The phrasing of this places blame on farmers for making a poor choice. Unfortunately to keep up in the market farmers needed to increase yields to remain competitive with their neighbours who embarked with this kind of thing first. It's great to have principals, but it might also bankrupt you.

Starting up a farm (even a hobby farm) is an enormous capital investment. https://www.fsa.usda.gov/programs-and-services/farm-loan-programs/beginning-farmers-and-ranchers-loans/index https://www.fsa.usda.gov/programs-and-services/farm-loan-pro... and https://www.farmers.gov/loans https://www.farmers.gov/loans > Farm Ownership Loans can be used to purchase or expand a farm or ranch. This loan can help with paying closing costs, constructing or improving buildings on the farm, or to help conserve and protect soil and water resources. > USDA’s Farm Service Agency offers up to $600,000 for eligible borrowers through Farm Ownership Loans. > Farm Operating Loans can be used to purchase livestock, seed and equipment. It can also cover farm operating costs and family living expenses while a farm gets up and running. > USDA’s Farm Service Agency offers up to $400,000 for eligible borrowers through Farm Operating Loans. Aside from the "grow things" there is an enormous amount of business sense and domain knowledge (what to grow when, how to fix that thing now, does this other thing need fixing?) that is needed to accompany it.

HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
Technically yes, but you can do it on the small (for a hobby farm anyway). You could start a small commercial farm, but you'd basically have bought yourself a sub-minimum wage job. I live on a horse farm and when we bought the property it didn't really cost that much more than a nice house in the suburbs. My 10 acres and a large new house cost far less than a lot of small houses on tiny lots in places like Seattle or SF. If we had wanted to be farther out (I'm about a 50 minute commute to Minneapolis), we could have gotten more land for even less. The major adjustments are (a) it's very difficult to take a vacation, (b) the amount of income that goes towards taking care of animals and (c) the work never ends (see [a] above). Besides that, it's all peachy :-)

rybosworld 4y ago

It's extremely hard to compete with the major farming conglomerates for one thing.

eppp 4y ago
You could easily raise goats without competing. They dont take up much room and there is a market for them. You just won't make much money. Like farming in general.
- shagie 4y ago
  http://www.goatops.com http://www.goatops.com The issue is scaling. In order to make enough to live off of the income generated by the goats, you need a dozen goats, which themselves need food, shelter, and medical care. And for dairy goats, you also need the equipment for milking.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 4y ago
    A dozen goats is not a lot. Shelter you can build yourself and you just need enough so they have an escape from the sun & snow. Farmers do most of the medical care themselves except for the rare instances where you need to call the vet, e.g., we just had to put a horse down a couple of weeks ago. Food is the most important one because it's an non-stop expense, but it's not unmanageable since it scales directly with the number of animals.
    - shagie 4y ago
      That roughly agrees with my back of the envelope math. A dozen dairy goats should be able to provide about $80k/year and it doesn't seem like they'd need too much room (my parents house in the country has enough land out back to do this and the neighbors are far enough away to not complain about goats... and, well, the neighbors have cows and so aren't likely to complain in any case - this isn't an option for someone living in the suburbs though). Still, animal husbandry isn't something for me. It's not the animals, but rather the business side of it that is at issue. http://www.cs.uni.edu/%7Ewallingf/blog/archives/monthly/2018-10.html#e2018-10-21T09_53_29.htm http://www.cs.uni.edu/%7Ewallingf/blog/archives/monthly/2018... / https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26209541 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26209541 (and my commentary on it https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26215448 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26215448 )

hristov 4y ago

It is not about ability, it is about opportunity. As automation and chemistry overtakes farming there is smaller and smaller demand for people.

odrekf 4y ago

A lot of the knowledge required to farm has been lost with big Ag. Try finding someone who actually knows how to do the job's definition. Things like harvesting seeds... Farmers just buy them from the store, and then complain about how farming is getting so expensive. They have become consumers/slaves, with only big Ag, big Oil, and big Pharma as the winners (at the expense of everyone's health and everyone's future).

loufe 4y ago
The phrasing of this places blame on farmers for making a poor choice. Unfortunately to keep up in the market farmers needed to increase yields to remain competitive with their neighbours who embarked with this kind of thing first. It's great to have principals, but it might also bankrupt you.