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None of the men I talk to in real life have the experiences I see men complaining about online. The women I meet in real life, on the other hand, have stories t

None of the men I talk to in real life have the experiences I see men complaining about online. The women I meet in real life, on the other hand, have stories that match the ones I read about online. The male complainers just naturally have more to gripe about than the "meh, it's fine" crowd who usually can't be bothered (or aren't believed in the crowd of complaints).

P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
How can we blame men in 3 ... 2 ... 1 ... GO!
pcbro141 4y ago
Well I guess that settles it. All the tens of millions of men having issues with dating don't exist in real life since you haven't personally met them.
- Bakary 4y ago
  The takeaway here is that there is a middle ground between the 'blackpill' mindset we often hear about online and the reality. The reality is grim, but not grimdark.
  - pcbro141 4y ago
    I agree, but None of the men I talk to in real life have the experiences I see men complaining about online This is dismissing all the complaints of men. Not all the complaints men have are baseless. This dismissive mindset of declaring every complaint men have as black pill/extremist/incel is probably why young men are gravitating to more extreme 'red pill' characters like Andrew Tate by the tens of millions. This is what happens when you dismiss any chance for nuanced and balanced conversations where both sides grievances are heard.
- majormajor 4y ago
  You just want me to take your "tens of millions" number on faith? Claiming that it's at the same quantitative level as, say, monthly listeners of Beyonce on Spotify, or many other things that it's easy to find real-life claims of without support is a lot to ask of folks. Tens of millions having a hard time dating or tens of millions convinced women are the enemy and are treating them unfairly? Cause from the outside, it just looks like there are a bunch of people - who over-estimate the universalness of their experience - who have decided somehow that other struggling men are the expert on women's behavior re: dating and jumped to entirely wrong conclusions. This probably isn't just their fault; the last fifteen years of social media tech have really accelerated the ability of people to take advantage of self-reinforcing bubbles to push toxic views. Dating is hard, it's always been hard for most people, but there wasn't always such an easy way to find others telling you it's actually everyone else being out to get you. Like this zero-sum-game gem from elsewhere in the thread: "It’s hard to have a conversation about it because women don’t fucking care. You know why? It’s not their problem and it never affects them directly. It also means often that the solution involves women changing and that’s sexist, sweaty." - They're the ones doing it wrong - very deep, very insightful, how much deep introspection and reflection did it take them to jump to that conclusion? But hey, I'm not a woman, so you're gonna have to come up with a new reason I'm skeptical. I guess I'm just lucky that when I was a late-20s virgin the "foreveralone" convo was more ironic and less violent, so I just focused on my own social skills. And then there are quick downvotes and lazy dismissals so no wonder the non-angry men don't bother to engage that often.
CharlesW 4y ago
> None of the men I talk to in real life have the experiences I see men complaining about online. Same. Just from talking to the women in my life it's clear that women experience way more unwanted harassment via online dating apps than I did personally (I met my wife this way), or any men I know did. Yes, it's harder to men to get attention on dating apps than it is for women. Yes, men on dating apps are targeted by OnlyFans sex workers. If those issues seem insurmountable to you, then my recommendation is to touch grass and go meet people in RealLife™.
- BlargMcLarg 4y ago
  Ask yourself how many women approach and how many women expect to be approached. Now do the same for men. Here's a bonus: ask men how many women turned 'crazy' after the first night of sex, and do the same for women. It's almost as if the different sexes have different expectations and modus operandi.
  - CharlesW 4y ago
    > Ask yourself how many women approach and how many women expect to be approached. Now do the same for men. 93% of women prefer to be asked out on a date, while 16% of men prefer to be asked out. So if you're a man who won't ask women out, you're going to miss out on potential dates with a lot of women. No judgment — that may not be a bad strategy if you're the type of man who needs their partner to "wear the pants", so to speak. > Here's a bonus: ask men how many women turned 'crazy' after the first night of sex, and do the same for women. 1 in 7 women have been injured by an intimate partner, compared to 1 in 25 men.¹ 1 in 10 women have been raped by an intimate partner, with no comparable data available for men because it's so rare.¹ Dating is far risker for women. ¹ https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/nisvs_report2010-a.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/nisvs_report2010-...
    - P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
      I love how when it's women it's rarely reported, when it's men the "reported" drops off and it just becomes rare. Lets not even get started on the number of female teachers that have sex with students and walk away with no charges, or very light charges. both sexes have their own challenges, this dismissal of one set of challenges does nothing to further the conversation.
idrathernot 4y ago
I agree that the extreme rhetoric and immature behavior of online “incels” (that which is portrayed by the media) is basically non-existent IRL. However the broader and very real issue of Men lacking the societal support/proper outlets to deal with traumatic experiences is probably one of many reasons why 80% of suicides are males. (Men not expressing their feelings doesn’t mean they don’t have any)

P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago

How can we blame men in 3 ... 2 ... 1 ... GO!

pcbro141 4y ago

Well I guess that settles it. All the tens of millions of men having issues with dating don't exist in real life since you haven't personally met them.

Bakary 4y ago
The takeaway here is that there is a middle ground between the 'blackpill' mindset we often hear about online and the reality. The reality is grim, but not grimdark.
- pcbro141 4y ago
  I agree, but None of the men I talk to in real life have the experiences I see men complaining about online This is dismissing all the complaints of men. Not all the complaints men have are baseless. This dismissive mindset of declaring every complaint men have as black pill/extremist/incel is probably why young men are gravitating to more extreme 'red pill' characters like Andrew Tate by the tens of millions. This is what happens when you dismiss any chance for nuanced and balanced conversations where both sides grievances are heard.
majormajor 4y ago
You just want me to take your "tens of millions" number on faith? Claiming that it's at the same quantitative level as, say, monthly listeners of Beyonce on Spotify, or many other things that it's easy to find real-life claims of without support is a lot to ask of folks. Tens of millions having a hard time dating or tens of millions convinced women are the enemy and are treating them unfairly? Cause from the outside, it just looks like there are a bunch of people - who over-estimate the universalness of their experience - who have decided somehow that other struggling men are the expert on women's behavior re: dating and jumped to entirely wrong conclusions. This probably isn't just their fault; the last fifteen years of social media tech have really accelerated the ability of people to take advantage of self-reinforcing bubbles to push toxic views. Dating is hard, it's always been hard for most people, but there wasn't always such an easy way to find others telling you it's actually everyone else being out to get you. Like this zero-sum-game gem from elsewhere in the thread: "It’s hard to have a conversation about it because women don’t fucking care. You know why? It’s not their problem and it never affects them directly. It also means often that the solution involves women changing and that’s sexist, sweaty." - They're the ones doing it wrong - very deep, very insightful, how much deep introspection and reflection did it take them to jump to that conclusion? But hey, I'm not a woman, so you're gonna have to come up with a new reason I'm skeptical. I guess I'm just lucky that when I was a late-20s virgin the "foreveralone" convo was more ironic and less violent, so I just focused on my own social skills. And then there are quick downvotes and lazy dismissals so no wonder the non-angry men don't bother to engage that often.

CharlesW 4y ago

> None of the men I talk to in real life have the experiences I see men complaining about online. Same. Just from talking to the women in my life it's clear that women experience way more unwanted harassment via online dating apps than I did personally (I met my wife this way), or any men I know did. Yes, it's harder to men to get attention on dating apps than it is for women. Yes, men on dating apps are targeted by OnlyFans sex workers. If those issues seem insurmountable to you, then my recommendation is to touch grass and go meet people in RealLife™.

BlargMcLarg 4y ago
Ask yourself how many women approach and how many women expect to be approached. Now do the same for men. Here's a bonus: ask men how many women turned 'crazy' after the first night of sex, and do the same for women. It's almost as if the different sexes have different expectations and modus operandi.
- CharlesW 4y ago
  > Ask yourself how many women approach and how many women expect to be approached. Now do the same for men. 93% of women prefer to be asked out on a date, while 16% of men prefer to be asked out. So if you're a man who won't ask women out, you're going to miss out on potential dates with a lot of women. No judgment — that may not be a bad strategy if you're the type of man who needs their partner to "wear the pants", so to speak. > Here's a bonus: ask men how many women turned 'crazy' after the first night of sex, and do the same for women. 1 in 7 women have been injured by an intimate partner, compared to 1 in 25 men.¹ 1 in 10 women have been raped by an intimate partner, with no comparable data available for men because it's so rare.¹ Dating is far risker for women. ¹ https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/nisvs_report2010-a.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/nisvs_report2010-...
  - P5fRxh5kUvp2th 4y ago
    I love how when it's women it's rarely reported, when it's men the "reported" drops off and it just becomes rare. Lets not even get started on the number of female teachers that have sex with students and walk away with no charges, or very light charges. both sexes have their own challenges, this dismissal of one set of challenges does nothing to further the conversation.

idrathernot 4y ago

I agree that the extreme rhetoric and immature behavior of online “incels” (that which is portrayed by the media) is basically non-existent IRL. However the broader and very real issue of Men lacking the societal support/proper outlets to deal with traumatic experiences is probably one of many reasons why 80% of suicides are males. (Men not expressing their feelings doesn’t mean they don’t have any)