4 ms·

> Never mind the practice of "Roses" in which the only way to message some women is to buy a like that costs $3.33 each. Again, in bulk you can get that down to

> Never mind the practice of "Roses" in which the only way to message some women is to buy a like that costs $3.33 each. Again, in bulk you can get that down to $1.49 apiece. But what is so scummy about it is that they seem to have an algorithm that detects the most beautiful of women and locks messaging them behind the need to send roses. Actually this is even far more anti-pattern than that. The fact the recipient knows you sent a rose signals a few things to (presumably) her: 1. You had to pay to get access to her, your ELO/Algorithm score is low enough that they app thinks your beneath her 2. You're not getting enough dates / matches that you're desperate enough that you're now paying money for what others get for free

pavlov 4y ago
Sounds like sending this kind of rose to a woman who already gets lots of attention is futile for the reasons you list. But it might actually be an effective gesture towards a woman who’s not in the top 50% of the site because it signals that you’re not a player who’s simply messaging all the below-average women, and that your score is probably aligned with hers.
- maerF0x0 4y ago
  > not in the top 50% of the site You will get presented this match for free and message her without a rose. I suppose you could send a rose voluntarily to someone who you presume does not get roses in an attempt to exploit the fact they dont get roses... which is slightly condescending xD .
  - pavlov 4y ago
    Sending gifts to not-very-attractive women is a time-tested mating strategy for the slightly lazy male contingent.
    - bel_marinaio 4y ago
      "gifting" women you barely know is a terrible strategy. This is the best way to land yourself a gold digger or some other undesirable. It signals to her that you are beneath her and are trying to buy her affection. On one first date a woman I had been talking to for a week texted me late at night. I told her to show up at my house and for her to bring a bottle of red wine. The next morning she is telling me a recent dating story. A guy took her out for a fancy meal. He spent $120 on her and then he got pissed after the meal when she wouldn't kiss him. I have some success and plenty of failure too when it comes to dating. There is so much bad dating advice out there for men. I feel bad for the men that are in the dark and being taken advantage of.
      - maerF0x0 4y ago
        I will venture a risky post to say, the gifting strategy is probably most endearing to women who receive little attention. This is a mostly mutually exclusive set with Gold Diggers.
- Dracophoenix 4y ago
  And that only works if you're the only ones sending her roses, which is information that female participant is unlikely to share. They're are probably other suitors sending roses as a signal of wealth to these less attractive women in a bid to compensate for they're own lack of attractiveness.
serjester 4y ago
How would structure your dating app to be different? Presumably you’d have expenses. Maybe you could make it open source? But sounds like you’re gonna have a hard time staying ahead of abuse. Not to mention attracting enough people for the app to be useful is gonna be difficult if you’re not spending money on marketing. Maybe you could have a monthly fee? But then who’s gonna use it? And there’s already plenty of established sites like that. Well maybe you could have a virtual equivalent of buying someone a drink? Ah yes, we end up back on roses. Is it perfect? No. But doesn’t sound like any option is.
- ryandrake 4y ago
  Honestly, as terrible as these features are for these male users, I feel that they are barely scratching the surface of what can be profitably done to monetize the thirst/desperation of lonely, unattractive men. I don't know what these new terrible features could be, but it really feels like very little has been tried. There are probably much, much darker patterns that these dating sites can use. I mean, we're talking about one of the most powerful bodily urges that exists, plus an increasingly desperate customer base with seemingly no way to satisfy it. Surely this path goes deeper into the woods.
  - maerF0x0 4y ago
    > I don't know what these new terrible features could be, but it really feels like very little has been tried. OnlyFans is already doing it all .
- maerF0x0 4y ago
  > How would structure your dating app to be different? Honestly I dont know. But here's an idea that came to mind. Men pay per swipe. (men tend to over swipe and inundate women with messages, make them not. Perhaps also women receive a token amount for showing up to a date, not ghosting as reported by the man. (Ghosting is a real thing unfortunately. It being a token amount means no sane women would endanger herself to get the token, but it might be enough to say, cover the first drink or part of the uber ride there) . The current political climate probably wouldn't allow functionality required to optimize the cisgender heterosexual experience. (Because that would require taking a stance about gender differences and designing systems that are suboptimal for other dating patterns) .

pavlov 4y ago

Sounds like sending this kind of rose to a woman who already gets lots of attention is futile for the reasons you list. But it might actually be an effective gesture towards a woman who’s not in the top 50% of the site because it signals that you’re not a player who’s simply messaging all the below-average women, and that your score is probably aligned with hers.

maerF0x0 4y ago
> not in the top 50% of the site You will get presented this match for free and message her without a rose. I suppose you could send a rose voluntarily to someone who you presume does not get roses in an attempt to exploit the fact they dont get roses... which is slightly condescending xD .
- pavlov 4y ago
  Sending gifts to not-very-attractive women is a time-tested mating strategy for the slightly lazy male contingent.
  - bel_marinaio 4y ago
    "gifting" women you barely know is a terrible strategy. This is the best way to land yourself a gold digger or some other undesirable. It signals to her that you are beneath her and are trying to buy her affection. On one first date a woman I had been talking to for a week texted me late at night. I told her to show up at my house and for her to bring a bottle of red wine. The next morning she is telling me a recent dating story. A guy took her out for a fancy meal. He spent $120 on her and then he got pissed after the meal when she wouldn't kiss him. I have some success and plenty of failure too when it comes to dating. There is so much bad dating advice out there for men. I feel bad for the men that are in the dark and being taken advantage of.
    - maerF0x0 4y ago
      I will venture a risky post to say, the gifting strategy is probably most endearing to women who receive little attention. This is a mostly mutually exclusive set with Gold Diggers.
Dracophoenix 4y ago
And that only works if you're the only ones sending her roses, which is information that female participant is unlikely to share. They're are probably other suitors sending roses as a signal of wealth to these less attractive women in a bid to compensate for they're own lack of attractiveness.

serjester 4y ago

How would structure your dating app to be different? Presumably you’d have expenses. Maybe you could make it open source? But sounds like you’re gonna have a hard time staying ahead of abuse. Not to mention attracting enough people for the app to be useful is gonna be difficult if you’re not spending money on marketing. Maybe you could have a monthly fee? But then who’s gonna use it? And there’s already plenty of established sites like that. Well maybe you could have a virtual equivalent of buying someone a drink? Ah yes, we end up back on roses. Is it perfect? No. But doesn’t sound like any option is.

ryandrake 4y ago
Honestly, as terrible as these features are for these male users, I feel that they are barely scratching the surface of what can be profitably done to monetize the thirst/desperation of lonely, unattractive men. I don't know what these new terrible features could be, but it really feels like very little has been tried. There are probably much, much darker patterns that these dating sites can use. I mean, we're talking about one of the most powerful bodily urges that exists, plus an increasingly desperate customer base with seemingly no way to satisfy it. Surely this path goes deeper into the woods.
- maerF0x0 4y ago
  > I don't know what these new terrible features could be, but it really feels like very little has been tried. OnlyFans is already doing it all .
maerF0x0 4y ago
> How would structure your dating app to be different? Honestly I dont know. But here's an idea that came to mind. Men pay per swipe. (men tend to over swipe and inundate women with messages, make them not. Perhaps also women receive a token amount for showing up to a date, not ghosting as reported by the man. (Ghosting is a real thing unfortunately. It being a token amount means no sane women would endanger herself to get the token, but it might be enough to say, cover the first drink or part of the uber ride there) . The current political climate probably wouldn't allow functionality required to optimize the cisgender heterosexual experience. (Because that would require taking a stance about gender differences and designing systems that are suboptimal for other dating patterns) .