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>> this boundary will always exist, regardless of the amount of therapy, or effort, that is placed upon it. despite the psychological community, or family or fr

>> this boundary will always exist, regardless of the amount of therapy, or effort, that is placed upon it. despite the psychological community, or family or friends or partners that could attempt to help. That boundary can be significantly moved or even torn down. Psychologists often don't really understand how to help, so they either ignore it or do other things that may or may not work (or may be harmful). IMHO more writings are needed from those who have made significant improvement in this condition, the clinicians understanding is either too abstract or not correct (SPD is not same as AvPD for example).

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
hackerlight 4y ago
What should be done to treat it?
- kiicia 4y ago
  That’s the neat part, you don’t. Source: I’m decades old, somewhere between SzPD and AvPD. Still officially undiagnosed and not treated for it, despite of years of psychiatrical treatment… I just get antidepressants and anti-generalized-fear drugs (dunno what is proper name) and I’m left alone (literally).
  - hackerlight 4y ago
    Does having a partner imply not having SzPD? Like would that be sufficient for someone to not qualify for a diagnosis.
    - trash3 4y ago
      Schizoid can be a good partner if compatible. They need solitude though otherwise are significantly more stable than most. A diagnosis proper would require brain mapping. My theory is there is a missing piece of circuitry like a bridge in the reward network of the brain.
    - arbitrage 4y ago
      Probably doesn't rule it out outright. It would depend on the level of relationship attachment.
    - PuppyTailWags 4y ago
      No, you can have SzPD and also a life partner. It can be as easy as getting married due to societal pressure, going with the flow of a relationship can often be significantly easier than fighting off questions about being a permanent single person. Relationships don't have to be lovely, loving things of deep attachment. They can also be points of stability, pooling resources, and taking advantage of societal carve-outs.
      - 2devnull 4y ago
        Must be a wonderful experience for the other person! Being someone’s point of stability for “societal carve-outs” instead of having your love and affection reciprocated.
        PuppyTailWags 4y ago
        I mean, the other person might also just need a point of stability and can otherwise get much of their social enrichment elsewhere. Your partner can just be a person you get along with that you live with like a good buddy that you might have sex with (if you enjoy sex). Your partner doesn't have to be your spiritual guru, your therapist, your life coach, your obsession, your reason to live, etc. It's not like Schizoid people go around sneakily pretending to love people only to turn off once the relationship is secured. Like any healthy relationship, open communication is expected. A schizoid person can simply say, "hey, I can't have a Hallmark Movie marriage" and their partner can just accept that. Maybe the partner is schizoid too. Maybe the relationship is an open one. Maybe the capacity to meet a schizoid person where they are is, in fact, the deep emotional validation that they share with each other that is the bedrock to the partnership (the schizoid person is finally accepted and can let down their guard a little, the partner gets an insight into their schizoid lover that no one else ever sees and revels in the intimacy and beauty of it). There are an infinite number of ways to have two adults enter an emotionally healthy relationship even if one of them is neurodivergent.
        brnaftr361 4y ago
        I don't necessarily believe it would be impossible to reciprocate, but that there would be an atypical representation of love and needs disparate to what culture has inculcated (which itself leads to many misapprehensions). Depending on the literature chosen, SzPDs can have "lively internal states" and be "exquisitely sensitive" it's just a question of expressing such things.
    - kayodelycaon 4y ago
      Context, I’m bipolar, not SzPD, so may not fully understand. Relationships don’t need to be based on love. You could seek out someone who is looking for someone to share responsibilities with. Imagine them as a coworker or roommate. If the relationship works well, you might want to formalize it to get the societal benefits marriage can provide. Most people can’t imagine this working out because they don’t want or function well in that kind of relationship.
- GoblinSlayer 4y ago
  Treatment follows diagnosis, "omnipotent barrier" is a shallow diagnosis. Once the nature of the barrier is known, solution should be fairly obvious.
_k7dr 4y ago
I have placed myself in therapy dozens of times up until now. Ultimately nothing has ever worked out up to now. There was always something that prevented further introspection, like the author describes. I am not sure that it is surmountable. Past therapists have told me that my relationship with them was not viable. At some point I only went to therapy on someone else's insistence. At some other point I realized that I was only ever in therapy because I was terrified of those other people's eyes on me, insisting that I go or I can't reasonably integrate with their company based on becoming a person changed to their expectations. When I realized that, I lost interest entirely. I also reported my experiences with therapy to the other party, and predictably, they shunned me. So there were two conclusions I could make: that maybe therapy isn't ever going to be as effective with me than with an average person, and that if someone's acceptance of me depends on my acceptance of therapy, then they are a lost cause. At the same time, I can understand such a response. There are probably hundreds of comments on this site directed towards depressed engineers and others where the advice essentially amounts to "go to therapy." What would those people say if your response was "no, it doesn't work?" But the fact is, it doesn't work. At the same time, common sense surrounding therapy is too strong a force to be reckoned with on an average advice thread, and the culture is not going to overturn it. So your only option is to stay quiet, and be left alone. This I think is one example of the "boundary" that the author describes, in trying to address that boundary with action.
- wruza 4y ago
  In my own experience, therapy works (and I’m not an easy case either). It’s more like not all therapists work, and the depth of your issues may be too big to even comprehend in a couple of years. I can’t tell for my hardest issues, but relatively small ones like a bunch of situational anxieties I successfully fixed. (The great finding was that once I eliminated the first algorithm, I realized that they are not situational, but remarkably generic. Lots of thoughts like “hmm, this is the same pattern, let’s give zero fucks and get new experience in return”.) It’s still a well full of mud nonetheless, but hey I’ve been filling it for 35 years. I score around 6/7 on the above definition, also failed a socialization test. I hit the wall a few times too. Questions not responding, nothing in my head to answer them. This wall is hard, hard on a level of debugging a binary without any debug info. I decided to relax a little and just accept and explore “theories” of my therapist and my own (e.g. just make an extreme statement about me and accept and therapy it, as if it was true). Also, some ideas don’t work because you may be trapped between an objective situation and your core character. While unsolvable, it e.g. gave me ~1.5x raise and benefits as a result. Nice. Also, when in a complete dead end, I just went on a session anyway and “started a new thread”. Most of them merged eventually in surprising ways and gave more clarity on previous ones. I wish you to find what works for you eventually, if you are willing to continue.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

hackerlight 4y ago

What should be done to treat it?

kiicia 4y ago
That’s the neat part, you don’t. Source: I’m decades old, somewhere between SzPD and AvPD. Still officially undiagnosed and not treated for it, despite of years of psychiatrical treatment… I just get antidepressants and anti-generalized-fear drugs (dunno what is proper name) and I’m left alone (literally).
- hackerlight 4y ago
  Does having a partner imply not having SzPD? Like would that be sufficient for someone to not qualify for a diagnosis.
  - trash3 4y ago
    Schizoid can be a good partner if compatible. They need solitude though otherwise are significantly more stable than most. A diagnosis proper would require brain mapping. My theory is there is a missing piece of circuitry like a bridge in the reward network of the brain.
  - arbitrage 4y ago
    Probably doesn't rule it out outright. It would depend on the level of relationship attachment.
  - PuppyTailWags 4y ago
    No, you can have SzPD and also a life partner. It can be as easy as getting married due to societal pressure, going with the flow of a relationship can often be significantly easier than fighting off questions about being a permanent single person. Relationships don't have to be lovely, loving things of deep attachment. They can also be points of stability, pooling resources, and taking advantage of societal carve-outs.
    - 2devnull 4y ago
      Must be a wonderful experience for the other person! Being someone’s point of stability for “societal carve-outs” instead of having your love and affection reciprocated.
      - PuppyTailWags 4y ago
        I mean, the other person might also just need a point of stability and can otherwise get much of their social enrichment elsewhere. Your partner can just be a person you get along with that you live with like a good buddy that you might have sex with (if you enjoy sex). Your partner doesn't have to be your spiritual guru, your therapist, your life coach, your obsession, your reason to live, etc. It's not like Schizoid people go around sneakily pretending to love people only to turn off once the relationship is secured. Like any healthy relationship, open communication is expected. A schizoid person can simply say, "hey, I can't have a Hallmark Movie marriage" and their partner can just accept that. Maybe the partner is schizoid too. Maybe the relationship is an open one. Maybe the capacity to meet a schizoid person where they are is, in fact, the deep emotional validation that they share with each other that is the bedrock to the partnership (the schizoid person is finally accepted and can let down their guard a little, the partner gets an insight into their schizoid lover that no one else ever sees and revels in the intimacy and beauty of it). There are an infinite number of ways to have two adults enter an emotionally healthy relationship even if one of them is neurodivergent.
      - brnaftr361 4y ago
        I don't necessarily believe it would be impossible to reciprocate, but that there would be an atypical representation of love and needs disparate to what culture has inculcated (which itself leads to many misapprehensions). Depending on the literature chosen, SzPDs can have "lively internal states" and be "exquisitely sensitive" it's just a question of expressing such things.
  - kayodelycaon 4y ago
    Context, I’m bipolar, not SzPD, so may not fully understand. Relationships don’t need to be based on love. You could seek out someone who is looking for someone to share responsibilities with. Imagine them as a coworker or roommate. If the relationship works well, you might want to formalize it to get the societal benefits marriage can provide. Most people can’t imagine this working out because they don’t want or function well in that kind of relationship.
GoblinSlayer 4y ago
Treatment follows diagnosis, "omnipotent barrier" is a shallow diagnosis. Once the nature of the barrier is known, solution should be fairly obvious.

_k7dr 4y ago

I have placed myself in therapy dozens of times up until now. Ultimately nothing has ever worked out up to now. There was always something that prevented further introspection, like the author describes. I am not sure that it is surmountable. Past therapists have told me that my relationship with them was not viable. At some point I only went to therapy on someone else's insistence. At some other point I realized that I was only ever in therapy because I was terrified of those other people's eyes on me, insisting that I go or I can't reasonably integrate with their company based on becoming a person changed to their expectations. When I realized that, I lost interest entirely. I also reported my experiences with therapy to the other party, and predictably, they shunned me. So there were two conclusions I could make: that maybe therapy isn't ever going to be as effective with me than with an average person, and that if someone's acceptance of me depends on my acceptance of therapy, then they are a lost cause. At the same time, I can understand such a response. There are probably hundreds of comments on this site directed towards depressed engineers and others where the advice essentially amounts to "go to therapy." What would those people say if your response was "no, it doesn't work?" But the fact is, it doesn't work. At the same time, common sense surrounding therapy is too strong a force to be reckoned with on an average advice thread, and the culture is not going to overturn it. So your only option is to stay quiet, and be left alone. This I think is one example of the "boundary" that the author describes, in trying to address that boundary with action.

wruza 4y ago
In my own experience, therapy works (and I’m not an easy case either). It’s more like not all therapists work, and the depth of your issues may be too big to even comprehend in a couple of years. I can’t tell for my hardest issues, but relatively small ones like a bunch of situational anxieties I successfully fixed. (The great finding was that once I eliminated the first algorithm, I realized that they are not situational, but remarkably generic. Lots of thoughts like “hmm, this is the same pattern, let’s give zero fucks and get new experience in return”.) It’s still a well full of mud nonetheless, but hey I’ve been filling it for 35 years. I score around 6/7 on the above definition, also failed a socialization test. I hit the wall a few times too. Questions not responding, nothing in my head to answer them. This wall is hard, hard on a level of debugging a binary without any debug info. I decided to relax a little and just accept and explore “theories” of my therapist and my own (e.g. just make an extreme statement about me and accept and therapy it, as if it was true). Also, some ideas don’t work because you may be trapped between an objective situation and your core character. While unsolvable, it e.g. gave me ~1.5x raise and benefits as a result. Nice. Also, when in a complete dead end, I just went on a session anyway and “started a new thread”. Most of them merged eventually in surprising ways and gave more clarity on previous ones. I wish you to find what works for you eventually, if you are willing to continue.