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> The team’s findings may also offer clues on how to preserve a blade’s sharpness. For instance, in slicing vegetables, a chef might consider cutting straight d

> The team’s findings may also offer clues on how to preserve a blade’s sharpness. For instance, in slicing vegetables, a chef might consider cutting straight down, rather than at an angle. And in designing longer-lasting, more chip-resistant blades, manufacturers might consider making knives from more homogenous materials. I'm no knife expert, but my understanding is that today's best knives use VG-10 steel, which is designed to "chip itself to make itself sharper". So its hard, flexible, slightly more brittle than you'd expect. But these micro-chips end up sharpening the blade more often than not. There's more than one way to design a blade's metallurgy. For shaving steel, it needs to be as cheap and flexible as possible, so that machines can mass produce them. High end knife-blanks cannot be punched if the steel is too hard or strong (leading to a "price cliff", where the best steels are an order of magnitude more expensive than the punchable lower-cost steels). -------- So yes, very interesting experiment. But also consider the overall picture: chip-resistance isn't everything.

Joker_vD 4y ago
Wait a second, those micro-chips end in the cut food pieces, right? How "micro" are those and how much of those are made on average in a cutting session? I am pretty sure that steel dust, starting from some size of specks and general amount of it, is not very healthy for internal consumption so I'd like to learn more.
- delecti 4y ago
  On the contrary, dietary iron, the kind you need, is just iron. There's a fairly common science demonstration where you blend up fortified breakfast cereal (I saw it done with corn flakes) and pass a magnet over it. The magnet will pick up a bit of iron dust. The amount of steel flaking off a knife into any given meal is likely much smaller than how much iron is in the food on its own merits.
  - shagie 4y ago
    There's also using cast iron to introduce iron into the diet. Food prepared in iron cooking pots as an intervention for reducing iron deficiency anaemia in developing countries: a systematic review - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12859709/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12859709/ It's also something that many vegans have looked into https://plantprosperous.com/cast-iron-cooking-for-vegans/ https://plantprosperous.com/cast-iron-cooking-for-vegans/ (which links to the above article too - though I found the nih one first) My search-fu is failing me at the moment, but that was also believed that this was an important part of the pioneers heading west in the early parts of United States history.
    - selimthegrim 4y ago
      > Food prepared in iron cooking pots as an intervention for reducing iron deficiency anaemia in developing countries I believe also a little iron fish is sometimes introduced into the non iron pot during cooking.
      - shagie 4y ago
        That's the first I've heard of it... so I looked it up. https://brightthemag.com/lucky-iron-fish-raise-questions-about-how-best-to-address-anemia-cambodia-d65bd66cf228 https://brightthemag.com/lucky-iron-fish-raise-questions-abo... and https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28049274/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28049274/
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
  - Graziano_M 4y ago
    I remember seeing that on Bill Nye.
- dragontamer 4y ago
  Those micro-chips exist on all knives through all kinds of cutting. VG10 just is designed for those chips to sustain the sharpness of the knife, so it requires less sharpening. You can look at the ends of any knife that's been worn away, and its not as smooth as when it was originally sharpened. The knife's edge is the thinnest part of steel, and may only be a few atoms thick when properly sharpened. It doesn't take much for it to chip off.
carpdiem 4y ago
These ideas are mistaken. "Sharpness" is related to the physical size and radius of curvature of the apex of the blade, combined with the angle of the terminal bevel. [1][2][3] Chipping of any sort almost certainly tends to erode the sharpness for many reasons, not least of which is that a sharp edge is a very low entropy state (compared to a dulled / chipped / etc edge...). VG-10 steel is considered "entry level" in terms of high end steels. [4] It was first introduced in production knives in the mid-90s, almost thirty years ago! [5] And there has been significant progress in materials since then. Almost all mid- and high-end knives these days are cut from blanks via an industrial laser or waterjet cutter. ----- [1] https://scienceofsharp.com/2014/01/25/quantifying-sharp/ https://scienceofsharp.com/2014/01/25/quantifying-sharp/ [2] https://scienceofsharp.com/2014/08/18/definitions-of-sharp-and-keen/ https://scienceofsharp.com/2014/08/18/definitions-of-sharp-a... [3] https://scienceofsharp.com/2015/03/24/sharp-and-keen-part-2/ https://scienceofsharp.com/2015/03/24/sharp-and-keen-part-2/ [4] https://www.bladehq.com/cat--Best-Knife-Steel-Guide--3368 https://www.bladehq.com/cat--Best-Knife-Steel-Guide--3368 [5] https://forum.spyderco.com/viewtopic.php?t=87185 https://forum.spyderco.com/viewtopic.php?t=87185
- zwieback 4y ago
  Interesting - I noticed that the edges of some new knives that are very sharp don't feel or look smooth. I usually sharpen my kitchen knives on a standard stone and get them very smooth, which I like aesthetically but probably not the most efficient for, say, cutting tomatoes.
  - carpdiem 4y ago
    Could you clarify a little more about what you mean by this? Tomato skins are definitely hard to cut with a dull knife (without crushing the tomato flesh underneath), so many people will default to using a serrated knife for them, hoping that the scalloped edge grabs and tears the skin. That said, a well sharpened kitchen knife should have no problem at all with tomato skins.
    - zwieback 4y ago

Joker_vD 4y ago

Wait a second, those micro-chips end in the cut food pieces, right? How "micro" are those and how much of those are made on average in a cutting session? I am pretty sure that steel dust, starting from some size of specks and general amount of it, is not very healthy for internal consumption so I'd like to learn more.

delecti 4y ago
On the contrary, dietary iron, the kind you need, is just iron. There's a fairly common science demonstration where you blend up fortified breakfast cereal (I saw it done with corn flakes) and pass a magnet over it. The magnet will pick up a bit of iron dust. The amount of steel flaking off a knife into any given meal is likely much smaller than how much iron is in the food on its own merits.
- shagie 4y ago
  There's also using cast iron to introduce iron into the diet. Food prepared in iron cooking pots as an intervention for reducing iron deficiency anaemia in developing countries: a systematic review - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12859709/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12859709/ It's also something that many vegans have looked into https://plantprosperous.com/cast-iron-cooking-for-vegans/ https://plantprosperous.com/cast-iron-cooking-for-vegans/ (which links to the above article too - though I found the nih one first) My search-fu is failing me at the moment, but that was also believed that this was an important part of the pioneers heading west in the early parts of United States history.
  - selimthegrim 4y ago
    > Food prepared in iron cooking pots as an intervention for reducing iron deficiency anaemia in developing countries I believe also a little iron fish is sometimes introduced into the non iron pot during cooking.
    - shagie 4y ago
      That's the first I've heard of it... so I looked it up. https://brightthemag.com/lucky-iron-fish-raise-questions-about-how-best-to-address-anemia-cambodia-d65bd66cf228 https://brightthemag.com/lucky-iron-fish-raise-questions-abo... and https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28049274/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28049274/
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- Graziano_M 4y ago
  I remember seeing that on Bill Nye.
dragontamer 4y ago
Those micro-chips exist on all knives through all kinds of cutting. VG10 just is designed for those chips to sustain the sharpness of the knife, so it requires less sharpening. You can look at the ends of any knife that's been worn away, and its not as smooth as when it was originally sharpened. The knife's edge is the thinnest part of steel, and may only be a few atoms thick when properly sharpened. It doesn't take much for it to chip off.

carpdiem 4y ago

These ideas are mistaken. "Sharpness" is related to the physical size and radius of curvature of the apex of the blade, combined with the angle of the terminal bevel. [1][2][3] Chipping of any sort almost certainly tends to erode the sharpness for many reasons, not least of which is that a sharp edge is a very low entropy state (compared to a dulled / chipped / etc edge...). VG-10 steel is considered "entry level" in terms of high end steels. [4] It was first introduced in production knives in the mid-90s, almost thirty years ago! [5] And there has been significant progress in materials since then. Almost all mid- and high-end knives these days are cut from blanks via an industrial laser or waterjet cutter. ----- [1] https://scienceofsharp.com/2014/01/25/quantifying-sharp/ https://scienceofsharp.com/2014/01/25/quantifying-sharp/ [2] https://scienceofsharp.com/2014/08/18/definitions-of-sharp-and-keen/ https://scienceofsharp.com/2014/08/18/definitions-of-sharp-a... [3] https://scienceofsharp.com/2015/03/24/sharp-and-keen-part-2/ https://scienceofsharp.com/2015/03/24/sharp-and-keen-part-2/ [4] https://www.bladehq.com/cat--Best-Knife-Steel-Guide--3368 https://www.bladehq.com/cat--Best-Knife-Steel-Guide--3368 [5] https://forum.spyderco.com/viewtopic.php?t=87185 https://forum.spyderco.com/viewtopic.php?t=87185

zwieback 4y ago
Interesting - I noticed that the edges of some new knives that are very sharp don't feel or look smooth. I usually sharpen my kitchen knives on a standard stone and get them very smooth, which I like aesthetically but probably not the most efficient for, say, cutting tomatoes.
- carpdiem 4y ago
  Could you clarify a little more about what you mean by this? Tomato skins are definitely hard to cut with a dull knife (without crushing the tomato flesh underneath), so many people will default to using a serrated knife for them, hoping that the scalloped edge grabs and tears the skin. That said, a well sharpened kitchen knife should have no problem at all with tomato skins.
  - zwieback 4y ago