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These "critics" are unbelievable backwards and harmful. Fent test strips are incredibly important, but the sooner we can legalize all drugs the sooner people ca

These "critics" are unbelievable backwards and harmful. Fent test strips are incredibly important, but the sooner we can legalize all drugs the sooner people can stop dying from bad batches.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
mminer237 4y ago
Most people just die from overdoses, not bad batches. Legalizing insanely addictive drugs like heroin and fentanyl would likely only increase deaths therefrom. There is no safe recreational use of them.
- tayo42 4y ago
  how do you think people are overdosing? have you used these drugs?
  - waynesonfire 4y ago
    Why do u have to be a user to understand this? So irrelevant
    - BobbyJo 4y ago
      I you aren't a user, or have never been close to a user in any capacity, odds are there is much that "you don't know you don't know."
- retrac 4y ago
  Then why did the number of people dying who use street opiates skyrocket once fentanyl got into the supply? The number of opioid users taking up the habit hasn't matched the increase in overdose deaths, from what I can tell. Fentanyl is less safe to use than heroin (which isn't exactly safe to begin with). That's in large part because of the variation in potency, from dose to dose. There may indeed be no "safe" recreational use, but there's certainly relatively safer use and relatively more dangerous use of opiates. And not knowing exactly how pure and how much of what you're taking makes it decidedly less safe. One relatively safer option is to only dispense less than what would be a fatal dose for the person's tolerance, and dispense regularly. This is often how opioid maintenance programs are run. In countries like Germany, Canada, the UK, Netherlands, Switzerland, etc. they prescribe opioids to severe opioid addicts so they can get high more safely and avoid withdrawal and stabilize. These programs generally drastically reduce the rate of overdose, use of other street drugs, and improve functioning and life expectancy. A lot of participants once given an effective regular daily supply, end up slowly weaning themselves off voluntarily (over 30% after 2 years in the initial German program).
- BobbyJo 4y ago
  I think 'bad batches' can also refer to 'abnormally strong' batches. What normally causes overdoses, in my experience, is the inconsistent strength of black market narcotics.
- standardUser 4y ago
  That's wild speculation. People who can reliably obtain pure drugs and properly dose their drugs are far less likely to die from them, obviously. Currently, most drug users cannot reliably obtain pure drugs (virtually all street drugs are contaminated) and hence cannot dose with complete accuracy.
  - mminer237 4y ago
    That's true, but even when Oxycodone was easy to get a legal prescription for from any pill mill doctor, there were still hundreds of thousands of people dying from overdoses from their professionally-made, exact dosings. The wild west going on with fentanyl is certainly worse, but I don't think legalizing what is likely the most addictive drug on the planet would improve things. Even if you cut down on contamination and improper doses, just the sheer increase in users would cause a ton of deaths.
    - NoGravitas 4y ago
      A big part of the problem is that people who want heroin or oxycodone, in consistent doses, are getting unpredictable doses of fentanyl. Despite addiction to heroin or oxycodone not being great, it'd be a lot better if those people got what they wanted, rather than what they're getting.
pessimizer 4y ago
We don't actually care about people. We still can't figure out how to stop prosecuting people for crimes who are sharing their own drugs with people who overdose. We are actively disincentivizing people who are watching other people overdose from calling emergency services. Imagine that you're with a friend or loved one who is overdosing, when you might not be that far yourself from overdosing, and choosing whether to let them die there and cover up all evidence that you were in the room, or spend 10 years in prison if you take them to the hospital and they still die. The worse off they look, the less sensible it is to call for help. It's a sick society.
- soulofmischief 4y ago
  I have a good high school friend that this happened to. 2nd degree murder because they bought and split a bag together. Ruined his life.
  - pessimizer 4y ago
    I have nothing to add other than that's disgusting and we're disgusting.
  - shagie 4y ago
    For people looking at a more in depth look at this type of situation - https://www.npr.org/podcasts/731409282/document https://www.npr.org/podcasts/731409282/document > Two friends share drugs. One overdoses and dies. The other survives. Is that murder? Amid the deadliest drug crisis in history, America is often answering "yes" to that question. Prosecutors are increasingly treating overdose deaths as homicides, locking up drug dealers who sell fentanyl to people living with addiction — people who are often addicted themselves. Some see justice and accountability in convictions under so-called "death resulting" laws. Some see a new and widening front in America's failed War on Drugs. In Death Resulting, we hone in on one of these homicide cases and meet a young man facing a 20-year mandatory minimum sentence in federal prison for his friend's death. Along the way we examine the forces that shape that case — from a cycle of generational trauma and addiction to the racist origins and current impacts of these prosecutions. So... an accident — or a homicide? Our answer could shape how we address the deadliest overdose crisis in American history
Silverback_VII 4y ago
>the sooner we can legalize all drugs the sooner people can stop dying This is just naiv. You can already see the effects of the marijuana industry speeding up adoption and innovation. But it would certainly be interesting to see what happens in a world with big heroine and cocaine industry.
- TylerE 4y ago
  We're there. Both were first sold by big pharma...

These "critics" are unbelievable backwards and harmful. Fent test strips are incredibly important, but the sooner we can legalize all drugs the sooner people can stop dying from bad batches.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

mminer237 4y ago

Most people just die from overdoses, not bad batches. Legalizing insanely addictive drugs like heroin and fentanyl would likely only increase deaths therefrom. There is no safe recreational use of them.

tayo42 4y ago
how do you think people are overdosing? have you used these drugs?
- waynesonfire 4y ago
  Why do u have to be a user to understand this? So irrelevant
  - BobbyJo 4y ago
    I you aren't a user, or have never been close to a user in any capacity, odds are there is much that "you don't know you don't know."
retrac 4y ago
Then why did the number of people dying who use street opiates skyrocket once fentanyl got into the supply? The number of opioid users taking up the habit hasn't matched the increase in overdose deaths, from what I can tell. Fentanyl is less safe to use than heroin (which isn't exactly safe to begin with). That's in large part because of the variation in potency, from dose to dose. There may indeed be no "safe" recreational use, but there's certainly relatively safer use and relatively more dangerous use of opiates. And not knowing exactly how pure and how much of what you're taking makes it decidedly less safe. One relatively safer option is to only dispense less than what would be a fatal dose for the person's tolerance, and dispense regularly. This is often how opioid maintenance programs are run. In countries like Germany, Canada, the UK, Netherlands, Switzerland, etc. they prescribe opioids to severe opioid addicts so they can get high more safely and avoid withdrawal and stabilize. These programs generally drastically reduce the rate of overdose, use of other street drugs, and improve functioning and life expectancy. A lot of participants once given an effective regular daily supply, end up slowly weaning themselves off voluntarily (over 30% after 2 years in the initial German program).
BobbyJo 4y ago
I think 'bad batches' can also refer to 'abnormally strong' batches. What normally causes overdoses, in my experience, is the inconsistent strength of black market narcotics.
standardUser 4y ago
That's wild speculation. People who can reliably obtain pure drugs and properly dose their drugs are far less likely to die from them, obviously. Currently, most drug users cannot reliably obtain pure drugs (virtually all street drugs are contaminated) and hence cannot dose with complete accuracy.
- mminer237 4y ago
  That's true, but even when Oxycodone was easy to get a legal prescription for from any pill mill doctor, there were still hundreds of thousands of people dying from overdoses from their professionally-made, exact dosings. The wild west going on with fentanyl is certainly worse, but I don't think legalizing what is likely the most addictive drug on the planet would improve things. Even if you cut down on contamination and improper doses, just the sheer increase in users would cause a ton of deaths.
  - NoGravitas 4y ago
    A big part of the problem is that people who want heroin or oxycodone, in consistent doses, are getting unpredictable doses of fentanyl. Despite addiction to heroin or oxycodone not being great, it'd be a lot better if those people got what they wanted, rather than what they're getting.

pessimizer 4y ago

We don't actually care about people. We still can't figure out how to stop prosecuting people for crimes who are sharing their own drugs with people who overdose. We are actively disincentivizing people who are watching other people overdose from calling emergency services. Imagine that you're with a friend or loved one who is overdosing, when you might not be that far yourself from overdosing, and choosing whether to let them die there and cover up all evidence that you were in the room, or spend 10 years in prison if you take them to the hospital and they still die. The worse off they look, the less sensible it is to call for help. It's a sick society.

soulofmischief 4y ago
I have a good high school friend that this happened to. 2nd degree murder because they bought and split a bag together. Ruined his life.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  I have nothing to add other than that's disgusting and we're disgusting.
- shagie 4y ago
  For people looking at a more in depth look at this type of situation - https://www.npr.org/podcasts/731409282/document https://www.npr.org/podcasts/731409282/document > Two friends share drugs. One overdoses and dies. The other survives. Is that murder? Amid the deadliest drug crisis in history, America is often answering "yes" to that question. Prosecutors are increasingly treating overdose deaths as homicides, locking up drug dealers who sell fentanyl to people living with addiction — people who are often addicted themselves. Some see justice and accountability in convictions under so-called "death resulting" laws. Some see a new and widening front in America's failed War on Drugs. In Death Resulting, we hone in on one of these homicide cases and meet a young man facing a 20-year mandatory minimum sentence in federal prison for his friend's death. Along the way we examine the forces that shape that case — from a cycle of generational trauma and addiction to the racist origins and current impacts of these prosecutions. So... an accident — or a homicide? Our answer could shape how we address the deadliest overdose crisis in American history

Silverback_VII 4y ago

>the sooner we can legalize all drugs the sooner people can stop dying This is just naiv. You can already see the effects of the marijuana industry speeding up adoption and innovation. But it would certainly be interesting to see what happens in a world with big heroine and cocaine industry.

TylerE 4y ago
We're there. Both were first sold by big pharma...