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College isn't trade school and I'll die on that hill. But that said kids are pretty bad at just using computers. Courses need to spend more time on getting the

by duped 4y ago

College isn't trade school and I'll die on that hill. But that said kids are pretty bad at just using computers. Courses need to spend more time on getting them up to speed with using CLI tools and familiarity with file systems. I feel like people need to graduate into using an IDE because teaching people about build tools and configurations or scripting can be a nightmare, no one seems to know how to do it coming out of school.

madamelic 4y ago
> College isn't trade school and I'll die on that hill. Yup. Assuming every CS undergrad is becoming a software engineer is extremely presumptive. There should be options to pursue a Software Engineering focus but we shouldn't water down CS departments by disregarding the hard stuff. My alma mater basically has two options: CompSci or Business Technology. CS works in C++ mainly. Business Technology works in C#. Everyone who likes computers but couldn't hack it at theory would move over to the Business Technology major.
- jbluepolarbear 4y ago
  This is true and unfortunately a lot of CS grads think that they’ll get a programming job right out of college, but fall short of candidates that took a 6 month bootcamp. It also hurt that most graduates I’ve interviewed can’t program anything more than a simple fizz buzz. Although not strictly CS, I think CS needs to teach codebase design and more on how to use/create apis.
  - duped 4y ago
    That's the opposite take that I think myself and the comment you're replying to is getting at. Boot camp devs are at a massive disadvantage ime, so much so they're soft banned from hiring pipelines without tons of work experience from most places that I've worked.
    - jbluepolarbear 4y ago
      Is it though? They’re saying CS isn’t a software engineering degree and doesn’t teach you how to make business software. Bootcamp devs on the other hand are taught how to make software as well as using a plethora of apis and frameworks. Presence of a degree does not guarantee a successful candidate nor does a bootcamp certificate guarantee unsuccessful one. I don’t have a degree and I’ve been a successful, high performing software engineer for over a decade.
      - philomath_mn 4y ago
        Agreed, neither a 4 yr degree nor a bootcamp is a guarantee of success. But one of the biggest things I am looking for out of new grads is base-level systems thinking capabilities. I'd rather have that than dev-skills, and, ime, CS grads tend to be more likely to be trained in that way (but every candidate is unique). But I think bootcamps are at a disadvantage in such comparisons because they tend to be so accelerated -- I wonder what a good 2 year bootcamp curriculum would look like.
        jbluepolarbear 4y ago
        I guess it’s different requirements. I’d rather a candidate with dev-skills. I haven’t seen any correlation of cs grads being easier to teach. It’s the opposite in my experience; a candidate with dev skills is likely to pick up systems design faster than someone with none.

by duped 4y ago

madamelic 4y ago

> College isn't trade school and I'll die on that hill. Yup. Assuming every CS undergrad is becoming a software engineer is extremely presumptive. There should be options to pursue a Software Engineering focus but we shouldn't water down CS departments by disregarding the hard stuff. My alma mater basically has two options: CompSci or Business Technology. CS works in C++ mainly. Business Technology works in C#. Everyone who likes computers but couldn't hack it at theory would move over to the Business Technology major.

jbluepolarbear 4y ago
This is true and unfortunately a lot of CS grads think that they’ll get a programming job right out of college, but fall short of candidates that took a 6 month bootcamp. It also hurt that most graduates I’ve interviewed can’t program anything more than a simple fizz buzz. Although not strictly CS, I think CS needs to teach codebase design and more on how to use/create apis.
- duped 4y ago
  That's the opposite take that I think myself and the comment you're replying to is getting at. Boot camp devs are at a massive disadvantage ime, so much so they're soft banned from hiring pipelines without tons of work experience from most places that I've worked.
  - jbluepolarbear 4y ago
    Is it though? They’re saying CS isn’t a software engineering degree and doesn’t teach you how to make business software. Bootcamp devs on the other hand are taught how to make software as well as using a plethora of apis and frameworks. Presence of a degree does not guarantee a successful candidate nor does a bootcamp certificate guarantee unsuccessful one. I don’t have a degree and I’ve been a successful, high performing software engineer for over a decade.
    - philomath_mn 4y ago
      Agreed, neither a 4 yr degree nor a bootcamp is a guarantee of success. But one of the biggest things I am looking for out of new grads is base-level systems thinking capabilities. I'd rather have that than dev-skills, and, ime, CS grads tend to be more likely to be trained in that way (but every candidate is unique). But I think bootcamps are at a disadvantage in such comparisons because they tend to be so accelerated -- I wonder what a good 2 year bootcamp curriculum would look like.
      - jbluepolarbear 4y ago
        I guess it’s different requirements. I’d rather a candidate with dev-skills. I haven’t seen any correlation of cs grads being easier to teach. It’s the opposite in my experience; a candidate with dev skills is likely to pick up systems design faster than someone with none.