4 ms·

Reminiscent of changing the collective English world's spelling of Kiev to Kyiv when both are just approximations of the real pronunciation, lol.

jcranmer 4y ago
That's not entirely true. Kiev derives from the Russian Ки́ев, whereas Kyiv derives from the Ukrainian Київ--note that the Cyrillic orthography differs between the two languages. One of the main reasons for the conscious effort to shift spelling is the fact that Russia is trying to invade Ukraine partly on the basis that Ukraine wasn't actually a real country and Ukrainians are just Russians. In that context, using Russian place names over Ukrainian place names for Ukrainian localities can be seen as a tacit endorsement of this claim, and this is why so many entities are consciously making efforts to use translation from Ukrainian, rather than Russia. (Although I, and apparently many others, seem to have to a hard time with "Odesa/Odessa").
- kaesar14 4y ago
  I mean either way it's a transliteration that's still not accurate to either pronunciation in its original form by sound. I don't have a problem with these sorts of political changes, just the way the wind blows, but it is funny to me when someone who doesn't speak either language attempts to correct other English speakers pronunciation when it's still not how a native Ukrainian would say it. Languages bastardize place names universally, there's no right way to say most places in most languages, they're all equally wrong.
- fluoridation 4y ago
  That's how languages acquire words for foreign things, though. English also calls a certain plant "tea", because that's how the English heard the people they bought it from call it, even though in China and India they called it "cha" or "chai". English also calls a certain nation "Japan", which is quite distant from its endonymous "Nihon" or "Nippon", because that's what they heard from European explorers. That Western Europe heard the name of a city from Russians first rather from its inhabitants is no different.

jcranmer 4y ago

That's not entirely true. Kiev derives from the Russian Ки́ев, whereas Kyiv derives from the Ukrainian Київ--note that the Cyrillic orthography differs between the two languages. One of the main reasons for the conscious effort to shift spelling is the fact that Russia is trying to invade Ukraine partly on the basis that Ukraine wasn't actually a real country and Ukrainians are just Russians. In that context, using Russian place names over Ukrainian place names for Ukrainian localities can be seen as a tacit endorsement of this claim, and this is why so many entities are consciously making efforts to use translation from Ukrainian, rather than Russia. (Although I, and apparently many others, seem to have to a hard time with "Odesa/Odessa").

kaesar14 4y ago
I mean either way it's a transliteration that's still not accurate to either pronunciation in its original form by sound. I don't have a problem with these sorts of political changes, just the way the wind blows, but it is funny to me when someone who doesn't speak either language attempts to correct other English speakers pronunciation when it's still not how a native Ukrainian would say it. Languages bastardize place names universally, there's no right way to say most places in most languages, they're all equally wrong.
fluoridation 4y ago
That's how languages acquire words for foreign things, though. English also calls a certain plant "tea", because that's how the English heard the people they bought it from call it, even though in China and India they called it "cha" or "chai". English also calls a certain nation "Japan", which is quite distant from its endonymous "Nihon" or "Nippon", because that's what they heard from European explorers. That Western Europe heard the name of a city from Russians first rather from its inhabitants is no different.