2 ms·

"It's the best we have right now though, and antidepressants in general are probably more helpful than not, but yes, people SHOULD be aware that they might very

by loceng 4y ago

"It's the best we have right now though, and antidepressants in general are probably more helpful than not, but yes, people SHOULD be aware that they might very well not work on them." MDMA, for example, seems far superior than anything else on the market - and what it does is simply causes the brain to release more serotonin than it normally would; SSRIs (etc) don't do that, they change how the brain actually functions. Your argument that "in general are probably more helpful than not" also then means you are okay that MORE PEOPLE kill themselves taking the SSRIs than would have otherwise - so you're okay with people dying, when rather there are alternatives - they just aren't mainstream because they haven't been promoted and marketed to doctors, nor advertised to manipulate people via ads by the pharmaceutical industry; I don't think that's acceptable or reasonable.

snek_case 4y ago
As someone who's almost certainly used MDMA longer than you have, just no... MDMA is know to commonly cause depressive crashes. It's no panacea, it's a drug with it's own tradeoffs just like antidepressants. Do a google search for "suicide Tuesday".
- loceng 4y ago
  As someone who uses the very shallow metric of "length of use" - thinking it is somehow a strong argument point, I'm guessing my judgement, critical thinking, understanding is greater than yours. The "tradeoff" is MORE PEOPLE die of suicide with SSRIs (et al) being prescribed than if they weren't allowed to be prescribed. "MDMA is know to commonly cause depressive crashes" is another shallow-narrow scope counter argument you put forward. A "depressive crash" - and arguably, in the right container with the right guidance can be avoided, and in fact is underlying depressed state that a person is connecting to - is not akin to people literally killing themselves from SSRIs. '"Suicide Tuesday" is the nickname given to the trend for people who use xtc all weekend committing suicide when they fully come down from the high on Tuesday.' You're bringing in abuse, an excess of something, as a supportive argument point? People also accidentally or purposefully recklessly drink too much or take too many opiates - perhaps in hopes they die. You also put forward a straw man argument - I never said MDMA was a panacea. Are you aware of the MAPS.org FDA approved clinical trials for MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for veterans with an average of 17.5 treatment resistant PTSD, where after just 2-3 sessions, in 1 year time 80% no longer qualified for a PTSD diagnosis vs. the placebo group where 80% had no improvement? Using therapeutic doses of 100-120mg. Do you know what the efficacy of SSRIs are, what the tradeoff your arguing and in support of? 3-7% better than placebo depending on the research you look at - and you kill people (through suicide and homicide) that otherwise wouldn't have died; and this happens at prescribed doses, not abusing the medications.
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by loceng 4y ago

snek_case 4y ago

As someone who's almost certainly used MDMA longer than you have, just no... MDMA is know to commonly cause depressive crashes. It's no panacea, it's a drug with it's own tradeoffs just like antidepressants. Do a google search for "suicide Tuesday".

loceng 4y ago
As someone who uses the very shallow metric of "length of use" - thinking it is somehow a strong argument point, I'm guessing my judgement, critical thinking, understanding is greater than yours. The "tradeoff" is MORE PEOPLE die of suicide with SSRIs (et al) being prescribed than if they weren't allowed to be prescribed. "MDMA is know to commonly cause depressive crashes" is another shallow-narrow scope counter argument you put forward. A "depressive crash" - and arguably, in the right container with the right guidance can be avoided, and in fact is underlying depressed state that a person is connecting to - is not akin to people literally killing themselves from SSRIs. '"Suicide Tuesday" is the nickname given to the trend for people who use xtc all weekend committing suicide when they fully come down from the high on Tuesday.' You're bringing in abuse, an excess of something, as a supportive argument point? People also accidentally or purposefully recklessly drink too much or take too many opiates - perhaps in hopes they die. You also put forward a straw man argument - I never said MDMA was a panacea. Are you aware of the MAPS.org FDA approved clinical trials for MDMA-assisted psychotherapy for veterans with an average of 17.5 treatment resistant PTSD, where after just 2-3 sessions, in 1 year time 80% no longer qualified for a PTSD diagnosis vs. the placebo group where 80% had no improvement? Using therapeutic doses of 100-120mg. Do you know what the efficacy of SSRIs are, what the tradeoff your arguing and in support of? 3-7% better than placebo depending on the research you look at - and you kill people (through suicide and homicide) that otherwise wouldn't have died; and this happens at prescribed doses, not abusing the medications.
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