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Gosh, sounds like the Turkish lira is a poor store of value! Right on the threshold of being a useless unit of account as well. Shortly thereafter, it becomes

Gosh, sounds like the Turkish lira is a poor store of value! Right on the threshold of being a useless unit of account as well. Shortly thereafter, it becomes a bad unit of exchange, unless you like taking wheelbarrows to the grocery store. Turkey is a country of 85 million people. Y'all may scream until blue in face about cyberponzies, but do try to save some breath to explain how else citizens of this country might preserve their liquid wealth as things go pear shaped. For extra credit, let's hear how this could never happen to an economic union that's a whole four or five times larger! I'm all ears and have definitely never heard "we're different" before, and if I have heard it, they were always correct. Edit: worth it. I draw strength from your petulance.

spywaregorilla 4y ago
Nobody claims that real currencies are immune to loss of utility as a store of value.
InitialLastName 4y ago
"Could never happen" is different than "has the institutional capability to prevent a single person with a bad idea from collapsing the currency".
- codefreeordie 4y ago
  Indeed, the Fed Open Market Committee, which is the arbiter of interest rates in the United States is a 12-member body, so it would take at least seven people to do something this destructive here. (Of course, the FOMC members change over time partly via Presidential appointment, so to persist in such a bad idea for many years would take potentially hundreds of people to at least not interfere)
  - anotherman554 4y ago
    It would take 6 people to do something this destructive here. One president, and 5 Supreme Court Justices.
    - InitialLastName 4y ago
      With the acquiescence of another 251 (218 representatives and 33 Senators), as well as (theoretically) the Vice President and 8 members of the cabinet.
ericmay 4y ago
I've always looked at cryptocurrencies more as good alternatives to awful fiat currencies and unlikely to supplant good fiat currencies so long as those currencies are generally well-managed. You generally cite the Euro but don't forget that Bitcoin just lost like 70% of its value this summer (in addition to other cryptocurrencies losing much of their value as well), neither are immune to volatility. In this case in particular it's jaw-dropping to see just how supreme the USD is. Rising interest rates in the US to combat inflation are basically wrecking major currencies, including cryptocurrencies. Personally I think long-term that the fiat monetary system will dissolve or be relegated to just a few countries (US for example assuming it doesn't collapse at the hands of the Republican party) and many countries (if they continue to even exist and depending on what amount of State is left over) will resort to bartering, a mix of USD and various cryptocurrencies, gold, and trading labor for commodities.
- samatman 4y ago
  If (and you did) you had your choice at the start of the pandemic (pre or post crash, take your choice), between the dollar, BTC, euro, or the lira, which was the best choice? Probably the one that's up 2x pre-crash and 4x just after, rather than the ones which are visibly eroding. The dollar is of course the tentpole. Such a great basket to put all the eggs, innit.
  - ericmay 4y ago
    Why limit your choices to only these specific assets from a "currency" class? Why not include other cryptocurrencies and fiat? And of what value is hindsight here anyway? The other mistake that's typically made though and I could have expanded on this earlier in my post is in comparison of different "currencies" whereas each have different attributes. BTC for example as you note appears to be deflationary with respect to fiat currencies which are inflationary by design and policy. On the other hand I can't buy groceries with BTC so I would have died during the pandemic and Dollar and Euro would have been superior choices.
marcinzm 4y ago
>else citizens of this country might preserve their liquid wealth as things go pear shaped. To buy cryptocurrencies they need to transfer their money to someone in exchange for crypto. They can transfer that money into another fiat currency or some other financial instrument. None of which would easily let you buy food. Of course, if you tried doing this at scale the government would find a reason to arrest everyone for it and then confiscate their wealth.
sgt 4y ago
Yeah, and why didn't turks just put their assets into USD before Erdogan came into power? Weak! /s

spywaregorilla 4y ago

Nobody claims that real currencies are immune to loss of utility as a store of value.

InitialLastName 4y ago

"Could never happen" is different than "has the institutional capability to prevent a single person with a bad idea from collapsing the currency".

codefreeordie 4y ago
Indeed, the Fed Open Market Committee, which is the arbiter of interest rates in the United States is a 12-member body, so it would take at least seven people to do something this destructive here. (Of course, the FOMC members change over time partly via Presidential appointment, so to persist in such a bad idea for many years would take potentially hundreds of people to at least not interfere)
- anotherman554 4y ago
  It would take 6 people to do something this destructive here. One president, and 5 Supreme Court Justices.
  - InitialLastName 4y ago
    With the acquiescence of another 251 (218 representatives and 33 Senators), as well as (theoretically) the Vice President and 8 members of the cabinet.

ericmay 4y ago

I've always looked at cryptocurrencies more as good alternatives to awful fiat currencies and unlikely to supplant good fiat currencies so long as those currencies are generally well-managed. You generally cite the Euro but don't forget that Bitcoin just lost like 70% of its value this summer (in addition to other cryptocurrencies losing much of their value as well), neither are immune to volatility. In this case in particular it's jaw-dropping to see just how supreme the USD is. Rising interest rates in the US to combat inflation are basically wrecking major currencies, including cryptocurrencies. Personally I think long-term that the fiat monetary system will dissolve or be relegated to just a few countries (US for example assuming it doesn't collapse at the hands of the Republican party) and many countries (if they continue to even exist and depending on what amount of State is left over) will resort to bartering, a mix of USD and various cryptocurrencies, gold, and trading labor for commodities.

samatman 4y ago
If (and you did) you had your choice at the start of the pandemic (pre or post crash, take your choice), between the dollar, BTC, euro, or the lira, which was the best choice? Probably the one that's up 2x pre-crash and 4x just after, rather than the ones which are visibly eroding. The dollar is of course the tentpole. Such a great basket to put all the eggs, innit.
- ericmay 4y ago
  Why limit your choices to only these specific assets from a "currency" class? Why not include other cryptocurrencies and fiat? And of what value is hindsight here anyway? The other mistake that's typically made though and I could have expanded on this earlier in my post is in comparison of different "currencies" whereas each have different attributes. BTC for example as you note appears to be deflationary with respect to fiat currencies which are inflationary by design and policy. On the other hand I can't buy groceries with BTC so I would have died during the pandemic and Dollar and Euro would have been superior choices.

marcinzm 4y ago

>else citizens of this country might preserve their liquid wealth as things go pear shaped. To buy cryptocurrencies they need to transfer their money to someone in exchange for crypto. They can transfer that money into another fiat currency or some other financial instrument. None of which would easily let you buy food. Of course, if you tried doing this at scale the government would find a reason to arrest everyone for it and then confiscate their wealth.

sgt 4y ago

Yeah, and why didn't turks just put their assets into USD before Erdogan came into power? Weak! /s