4 ms·

more like steam deck user: hey can i nuke steam os, install windows and play games and dual boot and and add a water cooled nvme drive and water cooler and rep

more like steam deck user: hey can i nuke steam os, install windows and play games and dual boot and and add a water cooled nvme drive and water cooler and replace broken parts with aftermarket parts? valve: lol, go ahead. its your machine, do whatever you like

sylware 4y ago
PC user: hey can i nuke windows and install a mainstream elf/linux distro (or your own)? microsoft: ofc, you just need a phd in software to workaround all the efi nasty blockades we did put in place _for you security ofc_, that with the help of hardware manufacturers. Go ahead, but don't fool yourself, we already got your money and since you are not the default install on any mass sold PCs, you'll stay at 0.00001% (scientifically insignificant).
- csdvrx 4y ago
  > microsoft: ofc, you just need a phd in software to workaround all the efi nasty blockades we did put in That's not a fair assessment. Linux used a whitelisted shim, which only included accepted entries in an easy-to-edit/hack EFI variable. Imagine writing your secret password on a normal VFAT partition that any OS can boot/read/change. This is the equivalent. The proper way is to enroll the private keys with the bios, and sign the payloads yourself (or let your distribution handle that), which is way more secure and can be automatized if you select the custom secureboot.
  - account-5 4y ago
    Seems fair to me when your alternatives are install a signing key (for your Linux os) yourself to the EFI, disable secure boot, or allow MS to be the gatekeeper of what software can run on your PC, including the distro getting itself OK'd by MS with their separate OS key that might or might not be included by the OEM. Happy to be corrected if things have changed since the last time I looked at things.
  - franga2000 4y ago
    > The proper way is to enroll the private keys with the bios But a method of doing that wasn't included in the UEFI standard for obvious Microsoft reasons, so few vendors support it and those that do usually don't do it correctly, let alone in a standardised way.
  - matheusmoreira 4y ago
    > The proper way is to enroll the private keys with the bios Not always possible. Depends on firmware support and we all know how shitty proprietary firmware can be.
    - csdvrx 4y ago
      I have yet to see a firmware that doesn't allow me to enroll private keys. It's a basic UEFI features, and IIRC Microsoft requires that to be possible for intel hardware: if you don't, no Windows. When you control the keys, SecureBoot is a good thing at least as good as encryption! There are things that are fair to complain about, but on this, I don't see how Microsoft or anyone could have done any better to be playing nice with Linux while helping customers.
      - matheusmoreira 4y ago
        > I have yet to see a firmware that doesn't allow me to enroll private keys. I have computers that don't have this feature. > When you control the keys, SecureBoot is a good thing at least as good as encryption! I agree. It's all about who owns the keys to the machine. If we do, then it's all good.
- rustybelt 4y ago
  Props to Dell on this front. I just installed Mint on a 2018 Latitude and it was easier than installing Windows. Everything just works including things like shortcut keys for volume and brightness. With what Valve is doing with proton and Linux gaming support, I'm as bullish as ever on the linux desktop.
  - danuker 4y ago
    My not very technically apt parents have been using Manjaro with the RedmondXP theme for a few years, with much fewer problems than Windows. 2022 - Year of the Linux Desktop?
    - teawrecks 4y ago
      2022 was finally the year for me
    - 2Gkashmiri 4y ago
      my anecdata. i have been running debian derivative on my machine for like years now and and only had to reinstall once because i fucked up a driver install. last week i installed the same OS on an old machine for a relative, on a "fresh SSD" so no dual boot nonsense and it had problems right out of the box. Like memory leaks and printers wont install because apparently sane-devel cannot be found by HP install utility. Long story short, the printer is still not installed on that machine, it works but i had to install some alternate software like system monitors instead of supplied ones. Dunno, maybe that one was a dud but i definitely feel the pain points as are being described across the spectrum. the problem is, if i cannot set up the machine in say half an hour without any tinkering, that is a win and i expect someone else to follow the on-screen commands but we do have a lot to cover and that is not in a bad way. i am a full time linux user so i am a part of this community but its not prime-time ready yet. I have installed windows 7 thousands of times, it always works. unless there is a hardware issue, out of the box the system works. that is not true on our side. i have to say it but the last years linus-linux challenge needs to be appreciated and we need to do more tests like these and keep fixing those small and big issues.
  - nuclearwast 4y ago
- 1337shadow 4y ago
  Except if you count Android and servers, then Linux is the most deployed system in the world.

sylware 4y ago

PC user: hey can i nuke windows and install a mainstream elf/linux distro (or your own)? microsoft: ofc, you just need a phd in software to workaround all the efi nasty blockades we did put in place _for you security ofc_, that with the help of hardware manufacturers. Go ahead, but don't fool yourself, we already got your money and since you are not the default install on any mass sold PCs, you'll stay at 0.00001% (scientifically insignificant).

csdvrx 4y ago
> microsoft: ofc, you just need a phd in software to workaround all the efi nasty blockades we did put in That's not a fair assessment. Linux used a whitelisted shim, which only included accepted entries in an easy-to-edit/hack EFI variable. Imagine writing your secret password on a normal VFAT partition that any OS can boot/read/change. This is the equivalent. The proper way is to enroll the private keys with the bios, and sign the payloads yourself (or let your distribution handle that), which is way more secure and can be automatized if you select the custom secureboot.
- account-5 4y ago
  Seems fair to me when your alternatives are install a signing key (for your Linux os) yourself to the EFI, disable secure boot, or allow MS to be the gatekeeper of what software can run on your PC, including the distro getting itself OK'd by MS with their separate OS key that might or might not be included by the OEM. Happy to be corrected if things have changed since the last time I looked at things.
- franga2000 4y ago
  > The proper way is to enroll the private keys with the bios But a method of doing that wasn't included in the UEFI standard for obvious Microsoft reasons, so few vendors support it and those that do usually don't do it correctly, let alone in a standardised way.
- matheusmoreira 4y ago
  > The proper way is to enroll the private keys with the bios Not always possible. Depends on firmware support and we all know how shitty proprietary firmware can be.
  - csdvrx 4y ago
    I have yet to see a firmware that doesn't allow me to enroll private keys. It's a basic UEFI features, and IIRC Microsoft requires that to be possible for intel hardware: if you don't, no Windows. When you control the keys, SecureBoot is a good thing at least as good as encryption! There are things that are fair to complain about, but on this, I don't see how Microsoft or anyone could have done any better to be playing nice with Linux while helping customers.
    - matheusmoreira 4y ago
      > I have yet to see a firmware that doesn't allow me to enroll private keys. I have computers that don't have this feature. > When you control the keys, SecureBoot is a good thing at least as good as encryption! I agree. It's all about who owns the keys to the machine. If we do, then it's all good.
rustybelt 4y ago
Props to Dell on this front. I just installed Mint on a 2018 Latitude and it was easier than installing Windows. Everything just works including things like shortcut keys for volume and brightness. With what Valve is doing with proton and Linux gaming support, I'm as bullish as ever on the linux desktop.
- danuker 4y ago
  My not very technically apt parents have been using Manjaro with the RedmondXP theme for a few years, with much fewer problems than Windows. 2022 - Year of the Linux Desktop?
  - teawrecks 4y ago
    2022 was finally the year for me
  - 2Gkashmiri 4y ago
    my anecdata. i have been running debian derivative on my machine for like years now and and only had to reinstall once because i fucked up a driver install. last week i installed the same OS on an old machine for a relative, on a "fresh SSD" so no dual boot nonsense and it had problems right out of the box. Like memory leaks and printers wont install because apparently sane-devel cannot be found by HP install utility. Long story short, the printer is still not installed on that machine, it works but i had to install some alternate software like system monitors instead of supplied ones. Dunno, maybe that one was a dud but i definitely feel the pain points as are being described across the spectrum. the problem is, if i cannot set up the machine in say half an hour without any tinkering, that is a win and i expect someone else to follow the on-screen commands but we do have a lot to cover and that is not in a bad way. i am a full time linux user so i am a part of this community but its not prime-time ready yet. I have installed windows 7 thousands of times, it always works. unless there is a hardware issue, out of the box the system works. that is not true on our side. i have to say it but the last years linus-linux challenge needs to be appreciated and we need to do more tests like these and keep fixing those small and big issues.
- nuclearwast 4y ago
1337shadow 4y ago
Except if you count Android and servers, then Linux is the most deployed system in the world.