4 ms·

I see this quote or mentions along this line popping up every single time someone says there is a regression in a newer generation. But some generations actual

by mihaic 4y ago

I see this quote or mentions along this line popping up every single time someone says there is a regression in a newer generation. But some generations actually are worse than their predecessors (at least in certain aspects). There are universal complaints about teenagers: loud, rude, etc, and there are specifics I see for youth today: they are emotionally more fragile and underdeveloped, are more passive in general, understand complex situations less, and have a harder time in accepting reality. I'm not blaming anyone (if I were it would be the boomers that ruined the youth today), but blanked dismissal of issues because "this is how things have always been" doesn't help. For most of human history we've been at war and at the brink of starvation, and all the while there was a concentrated effort to handle those issues.

mstipetic 4y ago
What is this objective reality people struggle to accept?
- mellavora 4y ago
  If you don't pay your bills, people come and take your stuff. Then other people come and make you leave your residence. Then you get to live in your car. Unless someone has come and taken that.
  - logicprog 4y ago
    In what way are we "struggling to accept" this reality? If you mean that we want to change this, that's an entirely different discussion and not necessarily an automatic point against us.
  - tchaffee 4y ago
    > If you don't pay your bills, people come and take your stuff. What gave you the idea that younger generations aren't aware of this? About 17 out of 10,000 people in the US are homeless. The vast majority of people in the US are not experiencing what you are describing.
  - mellavora 4y ago
    Hey, sorry, it looks like my comment was taken out of context. I was replying to mstipetic who said "what is this objective reality", which I read as saying there is no objective reality. And I only wanted to point out that there is an objective reality. I certainly did not mean to say anything negative about younger generations.
    - mstipetic 4y ago
      You can always choose not to play that game. The world is a big place.
logicprog 4y ago
Can you actually back up any of that, or is this just your personal feeling about "the youth"? And have you considered that we're not more emotionally fragile and underdeveloped, but that we are instead more aware of our emotions and psychology and willing to engage with that and our own needs instead of just repressing everything and turning into a bitter, hateful old person with a lot of toxic shit shoved into the back of their mind? And I don't even know what you could possibly be referring to with "understand complex situations less, and have a harder time in accepting reality" unless you're going for some transphobia and/or capitalist realism lol
- mihaic 4y ago
  I can back it up, although only in a longer conversation, as it involves a lot of personal experiences. You're right that past generations could be more bottled up because of social expectations, but I've seen also more flexibility in the past around various concepts. I don't mean to make an argument, for which you seem to be positioning yourself, but rather just see that some things have regressed, and it's not all merely relative. By the tone of your response, I'd imagine you had many contradictory conversations, possibly with close-minded individuals, so maybe that's why you're interpreting what I'm saying as if I'm a US right-winger. I think we'd be more in agreement if we'd met in real-life, as you also seem to value growth. My argument is that for that growth and development to happen, weaknesses need to be stated more clearly and addressed.
tchaffee 4y ago
> some generations actually are worse than their predecessors Sure. But the point is that the prior generation is too biased to correctly identify when this happens. And it's a solid point. The older generations are far more often wrong than they are right. Many of the kids I know who were supposed to do horribly in life due to their parents being too easy on them are now pretty damn successful adults. > there are specifics I see for youth today: they are emotionally more fragile and underdeveloped, are more passive in general, understand complex situations less, and have a harder time in accepting reality I haven't seen any of that in the kids I know. Perhaps it's the adults who are guilty of these things and can't handle the kids. Kids take a huge amount of work to be around. It's tiring. This is nothing new. If you predict a storm tomorrow, you'll eventually be right. But that doesn't make you good at prediction.
- mihaic 4y ago
  My experience might be limited to my geography/culture (Eastern Europe). While I agree that it's hard to have an assessment of new generations that isn't biased by your beliefs, I also think that simply giving up because everything is relative is not useful. The questions becomes: how can we see the problems of a generation with which we don't share a history in way that's useful to them? The original Socrates quote I was referring to is used to give up on doing anything, while my understanding of it was that we need to use more nuance and empathy to help guide the youth. Simply giving up on passing the lessons we learned from experience is a waste.

by mihaic 4y ago

mstipetic 4y ago

What is this objective reality people struggle to accept?

mellavora 4y ago
If you don't pay your bills, people come and take your stuff. Then other people come and make you leave your residence. Then you get to live in your car. Unless someone has come and taken that.
- logicprog 4y ago
  In what way are we "struggling to accept" this reality? If you mean that we want to change this, that's an entirely different discussion and not necessarily an automatic point against us.
- tchaffee 4y ago
  > If you don't pay your bills, people come and take your stuff. What gave you the idea that younger generations aren't aware of this? About 17 out of 10,000 people in the US are homeless. The vast majority of people in the US are not experiencing what you are describing.
- mellavora 4y ago
  Hey, sorry, it looks like my comment was taken out of context. I was replying to mstipetic who said "what is this objective reality", which I read as saying there is no objective reality. And I only wanted to point out that there is an objective reality. I certainly did not mean to say anything negative about younger generations.
  - mstipetic 4y ago
    You can always choose not to play that game. The world is a big place.

logicprog 4y ago

Can you actually back up any of that, or is this just your personal feeling about "the youth"? And have you considered that we're not more emotionally fragile and underdeveloped, but that we are instead more aware of our emotions and psychology and willing to engage with that and our own needs instead of just repressing everything and turning into a bitter, hateful old person with a lot of toxic shit shoved into the back of their mind? And I don't even know what you could possibly be referring to with "understand complex situations less, and have a harder time in accepting reality" unless you're going for some transphobia and/or capitalist realism lol

mihaic 4y ago
I can back it up, although only in a longer conversation, as it involves a lot of personal experiences. You're right that past generations could be more bottled up because of social expectations, but I've seen also more flexibility in the past around various concepts. I don't mean to make an argument, for which you seem to be positioning yourself, but rather just see that some things have regressed, and it's not all merely relative. By the tone of your response, I'd imagine you had many contradictory conversations, possibly with close-minded individuals, so maybe that's why you're interpreting what I'm saying as if I'm a US right-winger. I think we'd be more in agreement if we'd met in real-life, as you also seem to value growth. My argument is that for that growth and development to happen, weaknesses need to be stated more clearly and addressed.

tchaffee 4y ago

> some generations actually are worse than their predecessors Sure. But the point is that the prior generation is too biased to correctly identify when this happens. And it's a solid point. The older generations are far more often wrong than they are right. Many of the kids I know who were supposed to do horribly in life due to their parents being too easy on them are now pretty damn successful adults. > there are specifics I see for youth today: they are emotionally more fragile and underdeveloped, are more passive in general, understand complex situations less, and have a harder time in accepting reality I haven't seen any of that in the kids I know. Perhaps it's the adults who are guilty of these things and can't handle the kids. Kids take a huge amount of work to be around. It's tiring. This is nothing new. If you predict a storm tomorrow, you'll eventually be right. But that doesn't make you good at prediction.

mihaic 4y ago
My experience might be limited to my geography/culture (Eastern Europe). While I agree that it's hard to have an assessment of new generations that isn't biased by your beliefs, I also think that simply giving up because everything is relative is not useful. The questions becomes: how can we see the problems of a generation with which we don't share a history in way that's useful to them? The original Socrates quote I was referring to is used to give up on doing anything, while my understanding of it was that we need to use more nuance and empathy to help guide the youth. Simply giving up on passing the lessons we learned from experience is a waste.