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I’m not the commenter you were trying to respond to, but I’m not sure that’s particularly responsive. Many people treated the flu shot as a different category o

by jtc331 4y ago

I’m not the commenter you were trying to respond to, but I’m not sure that’s particularly responsive. Many people treated the flu shot as a different category of vaccine well before COVID. Many people who have their kids the standard vaccine program etc. made jokes about the flu vaccine for exactly the reasons you cite. Surely you acknowledge there’s a difference between the expectations people have about the chickenpox vaccine (basically eradicated noticeable childhood chickenpox disease by giving all kids a live viral vaccine with an attenuated strain) and the flu vaccines.

junon 4y ago
The only difference is the general public's perception. What you assert as fact is not scientific.
- peteradio 4y ago
  Colloquial understanding is crucial for trust in science. If the public perception is different for a word then whose fault is that?
  - junon 4y ago
    The public's. That information is widely available in easy to understand formats in every language. People spreading misinformation is not the fault of scientists.
    - peteradio 4y ago
      I recall science journalists spreading the concept of sterilizing immunity with regard to the covid vaccines even comparing them to small pox vaccine and invoking the concept of herd immunity which cannot and will not be possible with this disease. That is not a public fault.
      - junon 4y ago
        Source please.
        peteradio 4y ago
        Does my source matter or will you disagree with the point I'm making anyway? As I said, it is recollection of news clips and twitter from CDC officials/accounts, it would take some time to find and I'm not exactly willing to go through the effort if you will not first dispute the point.
        junon 4y ago
        Show me the source then we'll see lol. I can't imagine the CDC pushing out informational materials that claim complete protection/immunity from any of the coronaviruses.
        peteradio 4y ago
        Of course its not that, its: "We eradicated Smallpox with the vaccine, get your Covid shot so we can beat Covid!" In an infographic which makes it impossible to search for.
        junon 4y ago
        And what about that statement says the vaccines provide immunity to COVID-19? It seems more like you are under-informed about how pandemics end.
        peteradio 4y ago
        Well there is no strong implication, are you suggesting that the inclusion of Smallpox is entirely non-sequitur?
    - kcplate 4y ago
      Blame the public for poor science communication? No. Its not the public’s fault for science communication being ineffective about something that involves the public. Even the CDC realizes has badly they flubbed their communications for the pandemic. You also had Fauci and President Biden spreading the message of vaccine created immunity until the vaccine was found to be ineffective on preventing delta variant. The popular understanding of vaccines prior to COVID was vaccines worked to prevent disease. Even the flu vaccine were generally effective at preventing you from catching the flu. Covid vaccines were extremely ineffective at preventing COVID. Almost every vaccinated person I know has had it, some folks have had it multiple times. Only when it was evident that the Covid vaccines were essentially ineffective as a preventative, you saw the communications strategy shift to “prevents severity”, but even that seems to be a pretty dubious claim in hindsight. https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/cdcs-communication-failures-covid-tarnished-agency-rcna46425 https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/cdcs-communicatio...
rsynnott 4y ago
> 1 dose of single-antigen varicella vaccine is: 82% effective at preventing any form of varicella. Almost 100% effective against severe varicella. And that's actually one of the more effective childhood vaccines. People underestimate how much we rely on herd immunity for some of the big childhood illnesses.
- jtc331 4y ago
  Varicella spreads very easily, but 82% is wildly higher than the effectiveness of any of the COVID vaccines at preventing infection. So the public seeing it as wildly different is justified, and public health authorities have themselves to blame for communicating about this incorrectly and thus causing a dramatic loss of confidence in existing childhood vaccines.
dennis_jeeves1 4y ago
>basically eradicated noticeable childhood chickenpox disease by giving all kids a live viral vaccine with an attenuated strain Purely anecdote. I know one kid who had the shot have chickenpox twice. ( cannot recall but there were other kids also in a similar situation) Of course chickenpox was a disease that was near completely harmless (several people and kids that I knew first hand had it) to start with. Then the shots came along, and a new generation that never knew about chickenpox, were told that if the the person who had the shot had chicken pox it was far less worse that what it would have been. My point being that it is marketed to people who are clueless about the original chicken pox to start with. All smoke and mirrors.

by jtc331 4y ago

junon 4y ago

The only difference is the general public's perception. What you assert as fact is not scientific.

peteradio 4y ago
Colloquial understanding is crucial for trust in science. If the public perception is different for a word then whose fault is that?
- junon 4y ago
  The public's. That information is widely available in easy to understand formats in every language. People spreading misinformation is not the fault of scientists.
  - peteradio 4y ago
    I recall science journalists spreading the concept of sterilizing immunity with regard to the covid vaccines even comparing them to small pox vaccine and invoking the concept of herd immunity which cannot and will not be possible with this disease. That is not a public fault.
    - junon 4y ago
      Source please.
      - peteradio 4y ago
        Does my source matter or will you disagree with the point I'm making anyway? As I said, it is recollection of news clips and twitter from CDC officials/accounts, it would take some time to find and I'm not exactly willing to go through the effort if you will not first dispute the point.
        junon 4y ago
        Show me the source then we'll see lol. I can't imagine the CDC pushing out informational materials that claim complete protection/immunity from any of the coronaviruses.
        peteradio 4y ago
        Of course its not that, its: "We eradicated Smallpox with the vaccine, get your Covid shot so we can beat Covid!" In an infographic which makes it impossible to search for.
        junon 4y ago
        And what about that statement says the vaccines provide immunity to COVID-19? It seems more like you are under-informed about how pandemics end.
        peteradio 4y ago
        Well there is no strong implication, are you suggesting that the inclusion of Smallpox is entirely non-sequitur?
  - kcplate 4y ago
    Blame the public for poor science communication? No. Its not the public’s fault for science communication being ineffective about something that involves the public. Even the CDC realizes has badly they flubbed their communications for the pandemic. You also had Fauci and President Biden spreading the message of vaccine created immunity until the vaccine was found to be ineffective on preventing delta variant. The popular understanding of vaccines prior to COVID was vaccines worked to prevent disease. Even the flu vaccine were generally effective at preventing you from catching the flu. Covid vaccines were extremely ineffective at preventing COVID. Almost every vaccinated person I know has had it, some folks have had it multiple times. Only when it was evident that the Covid vaccines were essentially ineffective as a preventative, you saw the communications strategy shift to “prevents severity”, but even that seems to be a pretty dubious claim in hindsight. https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/cdcs-communication-failures-covid-tarnished-agency-rcna46425 https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/cdcs-communicatio...

rsynnott 4y ago

> 1 dose of single-antigen varicella vaccine is: 82% effective at preventing any form of varicella. Almost 100% effective against severe varicella. And that's actually one of the more effective childhood vaccines. People underestimate how much we rely on herd immunity for some of the big childhood illnesses.

jtc331 4y ago
Varicella spreads very easily, but 82% is wildly higher than the effectiveness of any of the COVID vaccines at preventing infection. So the public seeing it as wildly different is justified, and public health authorities have themselves to blame for communicating about this incorrectly and thus causing a dramatic loss of confidence in existing childhood vaccines.

dennis_jeeves1 4y ago

>basically eradicated noticeable childhood chickenpox disease by giving all kids a live viral vaccine with an attenuated strain Purely anecdote. I know one kid who had the shot have chickenpox twice. ( cannot recall but there were other kids also in a similar situation) Of course chickenpox was a disease that was near completely harmless (several people and kids that I knew first hand had it) to start with. Then the shots came along, and a new generation that never knew about chickenpox, were told that if the the person who had the shot had chicken pox it was far less worse that what it would have been. My point being that it is marketed to people who are clueless about the original chicken pox to start with. All smoke and mirrors.