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I agree with everything in that report except for using hydrogen for long term storage. Hydrogen has a very wide range of air concentrations in which it's flam

I agree with everything in that report except for using hydrogen for long term storage. Hydrogen has a very wide range of air concentrations in which it's flammable, a very high flame speed, and it burns very hot. It also gets everywhere if there's a small defect in the seals of its containers. To me, that's...not safe. Since PV produced energy is going to be so incredibly cheap, I'd trade some energy to make stored hydrogen a lot safer, by reacting it with air captured carbon to make hydrocarbons. Hydrocarbons are much safer in all four aspects I listed above. We already have the storage structures built, and we have many decades' experience with storing and handling them and dealing with emergency situations involving them. It'll probably take a few disasters before regulators come around to this way of thinking, though.

rini17 4y ago
I doubt it will be economical at all, as the efficiency losses multiply with every step: - electrolysis - synthesis of hydrocarbons - burning them
TheSpiceIsLife 4y ago
The article almost nearly hints at it by talking about ammonia and hydrocarbons, then goes on to talk about hydrogen storage tanks near solar farms. Hydrogen has a very low volumetric energy density, and it embritles steel.
- hoseja 4y ago
  It embrittles mostly everything. But ammonia might be viable. But we certainly don't need even cheaper fertilizer; Haber-Bosch process has been a disaster for the human race.
  - jonnycomputer 4y ago
    Fertilizer saved the human race from starvation. Probably one of the most important inventions ever. That doesn't mean fertilizer use has no costs, but there is a reason that famines only happen now because of war.
    - hoseja 4y ago
      On the contrary, it doomed the human race to obesity and multibillion population.
carlsborg 4y ago
Why hydrocarbons. They only need to solve Hyrdogen + X, such that the mixture is less flammable and there exists a cheap way to filter out the Hydrogen again.
Schroedingersat 4y ago
The article was implicitly including hydrogen derived molecules like ammonia, methanol or dimethyl ether under the same category as they become extremely viable even with current technology if you can get the hydrogen at 95% electric efficiency with $200/kW of capital.

rini17 4y ago

I doubt it will be economical at all, as the efficiency losses multiply with every step: - electrolysis - synthesis of hydrocarbons - burning them

TheSpiceIsLife 4y ago

The article almost nearly hints at it by talking about ammonia and hydrocarbons, then goes on to talk about hydrogen storage tanks near solar farms. Hydrogen has a very low volumetric energy density, and it embritles steel.

hoseja 4y ago
It embrittles mostly everything. But ammonia might be viable. But we certainly don't need even cheaper fertilizer; Haber-Bosch process has been a disaster for the human race.
- jonnycomputer 4y ago
  Fertilizer saved the human race from starvation. Probably one of the most important inventions ever. That doesn't mean fertilizer use has no costs, but there is a reason that famines only happen now because of war.
  - hoseja 4y ago
    On the contrary, it doomed the human race to obesity and multibillion population.

carlsborg 4y ago

Why hydrocarbons. They only need to solve Hyrdogen + X, such that the mixture is less flammable and there exists a cheap way to filter out the Hydrogen again.

Schroedingersat 4y ago

The article was implicitly including hydrogen derived molecules like ammonia, methanol or dimethyl ether under the same category as they become extremely viable even with current technology if you can get the hydrogen at 95% electric efficiency with $200/kW of capital.