3 ms·

I don't mean to pick on your personal story, but it would only be relevant if you found your bullies 60 years later, punched them in the face, and that somehow

by hbrn 4y ago

I don't mean to pick on your personal story, but it would only be relevant if you found your bullies 60 years later, punched them in the face, and that somehow fixed your broken character. In the real world, your bullies are no longer the same people, and punching them 60 years later won't address your past or future problems.

eyelidlessness 4y ago
Huh? Actual discrimination and hate and violence are also active and ongoing. That was my point. You can’t forgive someone for transgressions they’re determined to continue. I can forgive people for something that happened to me 25 years ago because it’s in the past. That’s the relevance of my story. I can’t forgive people who are going to do the same to me tomorrow. And no one forgiving them while they still pursue that aggression is going to “end” anything other than their own dignity or their own lives.
- hbrn 4y ago
  > hate and violence are also active and ongoing > You can’t forgive someone for transgressions they’re determined to continue My understanding is that hate and violence in the last few decades have been steadily declining. At the same time, self-reported perception of those has been increasing since ~2014. Maybe there's eluding racism we can all feel but cannot measure. Or maybe a side effect of changes to social network recommendation algorithms is that we're now building echo chambers and polarizing people. Today there's less hate, but more talk about it. And drastic measures aimed to decrease it have a high likelihood of changing the trend.
  - eyelidlessness 4y ago
    There has been a massive resurgence of hate groups and hate crimes in recent years. Some of it has barely been discussed at all.
MisterBastahrd 4y ago
That's adorable. When white people have kids, they have to give their children the birds and the bees talk when they reach an appropriate age. When black people have kids, they have to give them the same talk, and also the one where you need to be really careful about acting a specific way around cops lest they unalive you because police officers view blacks as more aggressive than whites because of prejudice. As long as my kids have to live in a world where they need to be given that second talk? I don't care about how put-upon you are by people actively reacting against racism.
- hbrn 4y ago
  How would you know it's not a self-fulfilling prophecy? Have you considered that giving the talk and installing the idea that "cops are your enemy" might cause your kids to run away or resist the police, thus unnecessarily escalating what could be a perfectly civil interaction?
  - MisterBastahrd 4y ago
    Because people aren't pulling themselves over and and shooting themselves. They aren't invading their own homes and shooting themselves. They aren't kneeling on their own chests and asphyxiating themselves. And the simple fact of the matter is that this is a RESPONSE to how cops have treated minorities for generations. Pretending that educating children on how to act around people who have a preconception that the color of your skin causes you to be a threat is racist gaslighting. There's a speed trap in Louisiana that I passed through for over 30 years. I've never seen a white person behind the wheel of a car with a police car nearby unless it was a traffic accident, I've seen tons of white motorists pass through the area far above the speed limit, and the community is 60% white. Meanwhile, I saw black folks pulled over literally every day. Please whitesplain to me how being wary of the cops in that stretch is the fault of black folks.
    - hbrn 4y ago
      > Because people aren't pulling themselves over and and shooting themselves. They aren't invading their own homes and shooting themselves. They aren't kneeling on their own chests and asphyxiating themselves Are you aware that for every example you brought up (Rayshard Brooks, Breonna Taylor, George Floyd) there's a recent example of the exact same thing happening to a white person and getting no national attention whatsoever? Your cherry-picking and emotional response is what leads to polarization in society. > how cops have treated minorities for generations No, this is how cops treated everyone.

by hbrn 4y ago

eyelidlessness 4y ago

Huh? Actual discrimination and hate and violence are also active and ongoing. That was my point. You can’t forgive someone for transgressions they’re determined to continue. I can forgive people for something that happened to me 25 years ago because it’s in the past. That’s the relevance of my story. I can’t forgive people who are going to do the same to me tomorrow. And no one forgiving them while they still pursue that aggression is going to “end” anything other than their own dignity or their own lives.

hbrn 4y ago
> hate and violence are also active and ongoing > You can’t forgive someone for transgressions they’re determined to continue My understanding is that hate and violence in the last few decades have been steadily declining. At the same time, self-reported perception of those has been increasing since ~2014. Maybe there's eluding racism we can all feel but cannot measure. Or maybe a side effect of changes to social network recommendation algorithms is that we're now building echo chambers and polarizing people. Today there's less hate, but more talk about it. And drastic measures aimed to decrease it have a high likelihood of changing the trend.
- eyelidlessness 4y ago
  There has been a massive resurgence of hate groups and hate crimes in recent years. Some of it has barely been discussed at all.

MisterBastahrd 4y ago

That's adorable. When white people have kids, they have to give their children the birds and the bees talk when they reach an appropriate age. When black people have kids, they have to give them the same talk, and also the one where you need to be really careful about acting a specific way around cops lest they unalive you because police officers view blacks as more aggressive than whites because of prejudice. As long as my kids have to live in a world where they need to be given that second talk? I don't care about how put-upon you are by people actively reacting against racism.

hbrn 4y ago
How would you know it's not a self-fulfilling prophecy? Have you considered that giving the talk and installing the idea that "cops are your enemy" might cause your kids to run away or resist the police, thus unnecessarily escalating what could be a perfectly civil interaction?
- MisterBastahrd 4y ago
  Because people aren't pulling themselves over and and shooting themselves. They aren't invading their own homes and shooting themselves. They aren't kneeling on their own chests and asphyxiating themselves. And the simple fact of the matter is that this is a RESPONSE to how cops have treated minorities for generations. Pretending that educating children on how to act around people who have a preconception that the color of your skin causes you to be a threat is racist gaslighting. There's a speed trap in Louisiana that I passed through for over 30 years. I've never seen a white person behind the wheel of a car with a police car nearby unless it was a traffic accident, I've seen tons of white motorists pass through the area far above the speed limit, and the community is 60% white. Meanwhile, I saw black folks pulled over literally every day. Please whitesplain to me how being wary of the cops in that stretch is the fault of black folks.
  - hbrn 4y ago
    > Because people aren't pulling themselves over and and shooting themselves. They aren't invading their own homes and shooting themselves. They aren't kneeling on their own chests and asphyxiating themselves Are you aware that for every example you brought up (Rayshard Brooks, Breonna Taylor, George Floyd) there's a recent example of the exact same thing happening to a white person and getting no national attention whatsoever? Your cherry-picking and emotional response is what leads to polarization in society. > how cops have treated minorities for generations No, this is how cops treated everyone.