4 ms·

I really don't see the L here. Plug-in hybrids are essentially more capable EV's, Toyota makes them, and if they bet wrong on EV's, it's not going to be difficu

I really don't see the L here. Plug-in hybrids are essentially more capable EV's, Toyota makes them, and if they bet wrong on EV's, it's not going to be difficult for them to convert production from plug-in hybrids to full EV's. On the other hand, if Toyota is betting right and everyone else is betting wrong, it's going to be a lot harder for other companies once they lose the know-how to make ICE cars or hybrids.

theshrike79 4y ago
Plug-in hybrids have two power trains you need to service. They are an excellent gateway drug to full EVs, but not the ultimate solution. They're also pretty good for special use vehicles, a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV is pretty much the best EV-ish vehicle if you need to tow a bigger load for long distances without shelling out 100k€+. And you can still drive on full electric around the town cheaply.
- Fradow 4y ago
  Honest question: what are the service intervals like for the ICE part of plug-in hybrids? Considering they are unused most of the time, I'd expect very infrequent maintenance, and even some parts switching from X years to lifetime. Edit: a short Google search [1] shows that for actual cost, plug-in hybrids have the same cost per mile than EVs, which is half the cost of ICE cars. It makes sense to me because batteries are a lot smaller/cheaper, the ICE doesn't get used all that much, and there is regenerative braking. [1] https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1129728_plug-in-hybrids-and-evs-cost-less-to-maintain-and-repair-finds-consumer-reports https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1129728_plug-in-hybrids...
  - theshrike79 4y ago
    Toyota's hybrids are wonderful, dunno about other brands. The Prius engine is a good gateway drug to full EV ownership, you'll learn that the amount you press the accelerator doesn't correlate with the engine RPM at all. The car picks whatever it thinks is efficient to move the car, any extra is stored into the EV system.
  - Workaccount2 4y ago
    ICE engines really hate sitting without running.
    - theshrike79 4y ago
      Some PHEVs force the engine to run until it's warm before allowing it to sleep. And if you need to run the AC or heating, it also requires the ICE to be on.
- philwelch 4y ago
  Sure. My point is that Toyota has hedged this bet fairly aggressively and is well equipped to transition to "full EVs" if that turns out to be the right call in the long run.

theshrike79 4y ago

Plug-in hybrids have two power trains you need to service. They are an excellent gateway drug to full EVs, but not the ultimate solution. They're also pretty good for special use vehicles, a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV is pretty much the best EV-ish vehicle if you need to tow a bigger load for long distances without shelling out 100k€+. And you can still drive on full electric around the town cheaply.

Fradow 4y ago
Honest question: what are the service intervals like for the ICE part of plug-in hybrids? Considering they are unused most of the time, I'd expect very infrequent maintenance, and even some parts switching from X years to lifetime. Edit: a short Google search [1] shows that for actual cost, plug-in hybrids have the same cost per mile than EVs, which is half the cost of ICE cars. It makes sense to me because batteries are a lot smaller/cheaper, the ICE doesn't get used all that much, and there is regenerative braking. [1] https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1129728_plug-in-hybrids-and-evs-cost-less-to-maintain-and-repair-finds-consumer-reports https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1129728_plug-in-hybrids...
- theshrike79 4y ago
  Toyota's hybrids are wonderful, dunno about other brands. The Prius engine is a good gateway drug to full EV ownership, you'll learn that the amount you press the accelerator doesn't correlate with the engine RPM at all. The car picks whatever it thinks is efficient to move the car, any extra is stored into the EV system.
- Workaccount2 4y ago
  ICE engines really hate sitting without running.
  - theshrike79 4y ago
    Some PHEVs force the engine to run until it's warm before allowing it to sleep. And if you need to run the AC or heating, it also requires the ICE to be on.
philwelch 4y ago
Sure. My point is that Toyota has hedged this bet fairly aggressively and is well equipped to transition to "full EVs" if that turns out to be the right call in the long run.