4 ms·

I think this is universal. The safety rules go so overboard that the critical ones get ignored with the stupid ones because employees don’t know which ones are

by rdtwo 4y ago

I think this is universal. The safety rules go so overboard that the critical ones get ignored with the stupid ones because employees don’t know which ones are the important ones. If everything is critical nothing is

bumby 4y ago
This is very true. At a certain point, management needs to be willing to prioritize what safety requirements they are willing to endorse. The worst of both worlds is when leadership isn't willing to formally do so, but push an informal culture to ignore safety rules. It’s worse when it’s low probability but high severity risks. Sometimes something that is critical but low probability is more easily conflated with not being a legitimate risk. I dog think it’s telling that the article made it seem like the entire safety team quit en-masse
s0rce 4y ago
This is major issue in my experience. Even introducing new benign chemicals can lead to lengthy reviews and project delays. I've also found that when I've asked directly how to safely handle something the safety people don't have an answer and end up with an extremely conservative approach that doesn't appear to be driven by actual risks (severity or probability).
BurningFrog 4y ago
Classic "boy who cried wolf" syndrome. Also: “The safest way to make laws respected is to make them respectable.” ― Frédéric Bastiat
- bumby 4y ago
  Counterpoint is that it's easy to dismiss a requirement when one doesn't fully understand it. Sometimes that takes less work to dismiss it rather than spending the effort to remove one's ignorance. Particularly in safety critical systems, it's probably prudent to assume there is a good intent first.
  - jackvalentine 4y ago
    A classic one for home food preserving - some of the old recipes have steps that ‘don’t make sense’ but are crucial to food safety. Without them you might get botulism.
    - bumby 4y ago
      I just learned about this one recently. Basically, how canning with oil isn't really worth the risk.
sbierwagen 4y ago
My first job out of highschool: overnight loader/stocker at a hardware store. The guy who ran the big forklift in the lumber section was a bit of a cowboy. At the start of the night there would be a big pile of lumber, and he had to sort it and get it on the shelves. We couldn’t really run two lifts at the same time due to aisle width, so he did the job solo, and ran the equipment fast to get it done in time. Start of shift one evening an upper manager came down and said they reviewed security camera footage, that he was driving too fast, and needed to be more careful. But how do I get it done in time, he said? She emitted the verbal equivalent of a shrug, and left. Because, of course, she doesn’t want him to be slower, she wanted him to be more careful. To be on record as having issued a warning, so that if something happened, her ass would be covered. She couldn’t solve the problem but she could certainly apportion blame beforehand. A formative experience for 19 year old me.
- bumby 4y ago
  Yeah, that's more of a CYA than an actual strong safety culture. It's more safety theater than anything else. I've had plenty of similar instances, where managers were allowed to get rid of safety/quality requirements as long as they formally documented that they understood and accepted the risks. They almost were never willing to do so, but would still pressure their employees to, you know, find some other way to get the work done faster.

by rdtwo 4y ago

bumby 4y ago

This is very true. At a certain point, management needs to be willing to prioritize what safety requirements they are willing to endorse. The worst of both worlds is when leadership isn't willing to formally do so, but push an informal culture to ignore safety rules. It’s worse when it’s low probability but high severity risks. Sometimes something that is critical but low probability is more easily conflated with not being a legitimate risk. I dog think it’s telling that the article made it seem like the entire safety team quit en-masse

s0rce 4y ago

This is major issue in my experience. Even introducing new benign chemicals can lead to lengthy reviews and project delays. I've also found that when I've asked directly how to safely handle something the safety people don't have an answer and end up with an extremely conservative approach that doesn't appear to be driven by actual risks (severity or probability).

BurningFrog 4y ago

Classic "boy who cried wolf" syndrome. Also: “The safest way to make laws respected is to make them respectable.” ― Frédéric Bastiat

bumby 4y ago
Counterpoint is that it's easy to dismiss a requirement when one doesn't fully understand it. Sometimes that takes less work to dismiss it rather than spending the effort to remove one's ignorance. Particularly in safety critical systems, it's probably prudent to assume there is a good intent first.
- jackvalentine 4y ago
  A classic one for home food preserving - some of the old recipes have steps that ‘don’t make sense’ but are crucial to food safety. Without them you might get botulism.
  - bumby 4y ago
    I just learned about this one recently. Basically, how canning with oil isn't really worth the risk.

sbierwagen 4y ago

My first job out of highschool: overnight loader/stocker at a hardware store. The guy who ran the big forklift in the lumber section was a bit of a cowboy. At the start of the night there would be a big pile of lumber, and he had to sort it and get it on the shelves. We couldn’t really run two lifts at the same time due to aisle width, so he did the job solo, and ran the equipment fast to get it done in time. Start of shift one evening an upper manager came down and said they reviewed security camera footage, that he was driving too fast, and needed to be more careful. But how do I get it done in time, he said? She emitted the verbal equivalent of a shrug, and left. Because, of course, she doesn’t want him to be slower, she wanted him to be more careful. To be on record as having issued a warning, so that if something happened, her ass would be covered. She couldn’t solve the problem but she could certainly apportion blame beforehand. A formative experience for 19 year old me.

bumby 4y ago
Yeah, that's more of a CYA than an actual strong safety culture. It's more safety theater than anything else. I've had plenty of similar instances, where managers were allowed to get rid of safety/quality requirements as long as they formally documented that they understood and accepted the risks. They almost were never willing to do so, but would still pressure their employees to, you know, find some other way to get the work done faster.