3 ms·

You can have it cheap, good or fast pick two.

eru 4y ago
Pick two or less.. Sure, but I don't see how that relates to the topic at hand? This constraint exists for all organisations. As do budget constraints.
- bumby 4y ago
  I think the idea is that a for-profit motive forces you to choose "cheap". And if your contract has productivity targets, it constrains you to also select "fast". These types of contracts are often selected for lowest bidder. I know of one such example where the contractor was pressed during the bid process about how they could be so competitive with their quote. The retort was to the effect of "Our secret is we do more with less." Unless there really is a vast difference in capability of the competing contractors, this naturally puts downward pressure on just doing less (in the form of following certain requirements).
  - eru 4y ago
    That seems to be a feature of lowest-bid procurement, no matter whether the bidders are non-profits or whatever.
    - bumby 4y ago
      Agreed. But "going to bid" will almost certainly constrain to a profit motive. Even if there was a case where a bidder is non-profit, I can't fathom how they would bid on a project with the intent to be in the red. Maybe there are more exotic ways to run a lab, but it seems like the choice is to either figure out how to work with a profit motive or be a primarily civil servant lab. The govt can sometimes try a "best value" award instead of low bidder, but that tends to make lawyers skittish because it opens up avenues for the losing bidders to protest the award.
      - eru 4y ago
        > Even if there was a case where a bidder is non-profit, I can't fathom how they would bid on a project with the intent to be in the red. Yes, exactly. Budget constraints exist for all organisations. Profit isn't usually a big part of any budget.
        bumby 4y ago
        Profit isn't usually a big part of any budget. Ok, but budget directly influence profit, no? Do you have a proposed solution? How would one mitigate the "low bid" incentive? My experience is that it creates an incentive to often create excessively low bids (to the point of not being profitable) in order to ensure a company gets a contract. And then ensure their "budget/profit" is made up by either a) cutting corners to reduce overhead or b) making change orders to increase revenue. One solution is additional oversight, but it's not clear to me that is a feasible option.

eru 4y ago

Pick two or less.. Sure, but I don't see how that relates to the topic at hand? This constraint exists for all organisations. As do budget constraints.

bumby 4y ago
I think the idea is that a for-profit motive forces you to choose "cheap". And if your contract has productivity targets, it constrains you to also select "fast". These types of contracts are often selected for lowest bidder. I know of one such example where the contractor was pressed during the bid process about how they could be so competitive with their quote. The retort was to the effect of "Our secret is we do more with less." Unless there really is a vast difference in capability of the competing contractors, this naturally puts downward pressure on just doing less (in the form of following certain requirements).
- eru 4y ago
  That seems to be a feature of lowest-bid procurement, no matter whether the bidders are non-profits or whatever.
  - bumby 4y ago
    Agreed. But "going to bid" will almost certainly constrain to a profit motive. Even if there was a case where a bidder is non-profit, I can't fathom how they would bid on a project with the intent to be in the red. Maybe there are more exotic ways to run a lab, but it seems like the choice is to either figure out how to work with a profit motive or be a primarily civil servant lab. The govt can sometimes try a "best value" award instead of low bidder, but that tends to make lawyers skittish because it opens up avenues for the losing bidders to protest the award.
    - eru 4y ago
      > Even if there was a case where a bidder is non-profit, I can't fathom how they would bid on a project with the intent to be in the red. Yes, exactly. Budget constraints exist for all organisations. Profit isn't usually a big part of any budget.
      - bumby 4y ago
        Profit isn't usually a big part of any budget. Ok, but budget directly influence profit, no? Do you have a proposed solution? How would one mitigate the "low bid" incentive? My experience is that it creates an incentive to often create excessively low bids (to the point of not being profitable) in order to ensure a company gets a contract. And then ensure their "budget/profit" is made up by either a) cutting corners to reduce overhead or b) making change orders to increase revenue. One solution is additional oversight, but it's not clear to me that is a feasible option.