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How is California planning to cleanly support the extra electricity load from EVs since they've planned to decomission all their nuclear power plants? The base

How is California planning to cleanly support the extra electricity load from EVs since they've planned to decomission all their nuclear power plants? The base load is going to be generated with coal and nat gas now. Most people will likely be charging their EVs at night so they'll be charging their cars from coal or gas rather than carbon free nuclear.

ryantgtg 4y ago
There are substantial efforts in California (at least in SoCal, which I’m most familiar with) right now to supply renewable energy. I’m not sure what’s preventing you from doing a search before asking such questions. Lotta information at your fingertips. https://www.nrel.gov/analysis/los-angeles-100-percent-renewable-study.html https://www.nrel.gov/analysis/los-angeles-100-percent-renewa... https://ceo.lacounty.gov/2021/12/07/sustainability/staying-power/ https://ceo.lacounty.gov/2021/12/07/sustainability/staying-p...
- ekianjo 4y ago
  Enjoy your substantial power cuts.
- GoldenMonkey 4y ago
  The grid needs 30% more power generation. If all cars are EV. CA is doing rolling blackouts as it is. Maybe Californians will be riding horses in the next 10 years ;)
  - outside1234 4y ago
    There is substantial unused grid capacity overnight and during the day that the most basic of smart grid logic can schedule the car to turn on charging during. In other words, shift the demand from the 4-9PM slot that is the hot spot. For what this doesn't cover, this is not rocket science. We will build the capacity. It's just wires and generators.
    - ryantgtg 4y ago
      And storage. I work at an engineering firm that is heavily involved in these efforts in SoCal, and this is probably boring to say (without details) but the storage component is fascinating. Not my sector, though, so I won’t/can’t elaborate (I do work in sustainable transportation planning, though).
  - dangrossman 4y ago
    I am curious how a voluntary "please conserve power 4 hours a day during a historic heat wave" request turned into "CA is doing rolling blackouts because they don't have enough energy" in the minds of millions. Residential electric use doubled over the past 30 years without issue.
    - ryantgtg 4y ago
      The NYTimes The Daily podcast described the voluntary request as “the state asked people to not charge their EVs” (paraphrase). Poor quality information everywhere.
    - anikom15 4y ago
      Rolling blackouts are separate from Flex Alerts.
      - dangrossman 4y ago
        Hence me asking why they're being conflated in the public consciousness.
        anikom15 4y ago
        Are they? Both of these things happen regularly in California and have been for decades.
        ryantgtg 4y ago
        California is a big state. In Southern California, neither of those things happen regularly (source: I've lived here since 1980). The last time they did happen regularly was with Enron.
  - bryanlarsen 4y ago
    Even if all new cars were 100% electric from now on, it'd take twenty years to convert all cars. 30% more power generation in 20 years is 1.5% per year. Not a big ask.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
dangrossman 4y ago
Most people charge their cars at night because utility companies incentivize to do so via time-of-use rate plans. There's nothing natural or convenient about delaying the charge until the middle of the night, what's most convenient is plugging in the car as soon as you park it. Wind farms generate the most power at night, so that'll continue to work. If solar becomes dominant, then they'll make it cheaper to use electricity when the sun's still up, and we'll stop delaying charges until after sunset. It's going to take decades to fully transition to electric vehicles, plenty of time to build all the renewables needed, all the storage needed for time shifting, and all the smarts needed for cars to participate in the smart grid.
gbear605 4y ago
Because of scale, an EV running off of coal-powered electricity is better for the environment than a gas powered car, not even taking into account emissions that aren’t carbon dioxide. That aside, there are a variety of electricity storage mechanisms that have been becoming more and more efficient, like normal batteries, hydrogen electrolysis, and pumped water. With some clever engineering, solar power works at night. I wish California would keep their nuclear plants open, but the loss of them is not an impediment for electric vehicles.
quickthrower2 4y ago
Imagine if, when people plug their big battery into the grid, the grid and the millions of big batteries talk to each other to negotiate electicity flows. Then the EV fleet could help even smooth the power supply and shift load and supply to match. Sun comes out, loads of EVs are charged at that point. A bit of cloud. The EVs give some back. To incentivise you could choose a cheaper per kwh "keep me topped up if you can" and more expensive "definitely fill the battery asap" and even a "hey not using this car for a bit, make use of my battery and pay me!". This is in addition to, if the battery is plugged in at home with solar panels, the home can self-smooth and do a lot of this locally, giving the grid the net in/out it desires from the house based on sum of: battery, appliances, solar as a whole unit.

ryantgtg 4y ago

There are substantial efforts in California (at least in SoCal, which I’m most familiar with) right now to supply renewable energy. I’m not sure what’s preventing you from doing a search before asking such questions. Lotta information at your fingertips. https://www.nrel.gov/analysis/los-angeles-100-percent-renewable-study.html https://www.nrel.gov/analysis/los-angeles-100-percent-renewa... https://ceo.lacounty.gov/2021/12/07/sustainability/staying-power/ https://ceo.lacounty.gov/2021/12/07/sustainability/staying-p...

ekianjo 4y ago
Enjoy your substantial power cuts.
GoldenMonkey 4y ago
The grid needs 30% more power generation. If all cars are EV. CA is doing rolling blackouts as it is. Maybe Californians will be riding horses in the next 10 years ;)
- outside1234 4y ago
  There is substantial unused grid capacity overnight and during the day that the most basic of smart grid logic can schedule the car to turn on charging during. In other words, shift the demand from the 4-9PM slot that is the hot spot. For what this doesn't cover, this is not rocket science. We will build the capacity. It's just wires and generators.
  - ryantgtg 4y ago
    And storage. I work at an engineering firm that is heavily involved in these efforts in SoCal, and this is probably boring to say (without details) but the storage component is fascinating. Not my sector, though, so I won’t/can’t elaborate (I do work in sustainable transportation planning, though).
- dangrossman 4y ago
  I am curious how a voluntary "please conserve power 4 hours a day during a historic heat wave" request turned into "CA is doing rolling blackouts because they don't have enough energy" in the minds of millions. Residential electric use doubled over the past 30 years without issue.
  - ryantgtg 4y ago
    The NYTimes The Daily podcast described the voluntary request as “the state asked people to not charge their EVs” (paraphrase). Poor quality information everywhere.
  - anikom15 4y ago
    Rolling blackouts are separate from Flex Alerts.
    - dangrossman 4y ago
      Hence me asking why they're being conflated in the public consciousness.
      - anikom15 4y ago
        Are they? Both of these things happen regularly in California and have been for decades.
        ryantgtg 4y ago
        California is a big state. In Southern California, neither of those things happen regularly (source: I've lived here since 1980). The last time they did happen regularly was with Enron.
- bryanlarsen 4y ago
  Even if all new cars were 100% electric from now on, it'd take twenty years to convert all cars. 30% more power generation in 20 years is 1.5% per year. Not a big ask.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

dangrossman 4y ago

Most people charge their cars at night because utility companies incentivize to do so via time-of-use rate plans. There's nothing natural or convenient about delaying the charge until the middle of the night, what's most convenient is plugging in the car as soon as you park it. Wind farms generate the most power at night, so that'll continue to work. If solar becomes dominant, then they'll make it cheaper to use electricity when the sun's still up, and we'll stop delaying charges until after sunset. It's going to take decades to fully transition to electric vehicles, plenty of time to build all the renewables needed, all the storage needed for time shifting, and all the smarts needed for cars to participate in the smart grid.

gbear605 4y ago

Because of scale, an EV running off of coal-powered electricity is better for the environment than a gas powered car, not even taking into account emissions that aren’t carbon dioxide. That aside, there are a variety of electricity storage mechanisms that have been becoming more and more efficient, like normal batteries, hydrogen electrolysis, and pumped water. With some clever engineering, solar power works at night. I wish California would keep their nuclear plants open, but the loss of them is not an impediment for electric vehicles.

quickthrower2 4y ago

Imagine if, when people plug their big battery into the grid, the grid and the millions of big batteries talk to each other to negotiate electicity flows. Then the EV fleet could help even smooth the power supply and shift load and supply to match. Sun comes out, loads of EVs are charged at that point. A bit of cloud. The EVs give some back. To incentivise you could choose a cheaper per kwh "keep me topped up if you can" and more expensive "definitely fill the battery asap" and even a "hey not using this car for a bit, make use of my battery and pay me!". This is in addition to, if the battery is plugged in at home with solar panels, the home can self-smooth and do a lot of this locally, giving the grid the net in/out it desires from the house based on sum of: battery, appliances, solar as a whole unit.