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And basic fitness which unfortunately rules out 80% of population in usa. Thats really the problem not lack of bike lanes that HN seems to belive is the panacea

And basic fitness which unfortunately rules out 80% of population in usa. Thats really the problem not lack of bike lanes that HN seems to belive is the panacea.

guelo 4y ago
Lack of basic fitness is not a permanent chronic condition.
- dominotw 4y ago
  It is. How many people do you know that have turned things around, i am guessing not many.
  - joshlemer 4y ago
    Probably because in North America we make it so damn hard to walk or bike anywhere, combined with a culture that teaches us that getting an acceptable level of exercise requires going out of your way to purchase a gym membership and find time in the day 3 times a week to go there, rather than just go outside and walk to get your groceries.
    - dominotw 4y ago
      Is that really the reason though? In India ppl have to walk everywhere, Cars are still a luxury for a majority of the population. yet 50% of the population is obese and has one of the highest heart disease rates anywhere in the world. Obesity is driven mostly by diet, sure walking helps but 90% is diet.
atlasunshrugged 4y ago
I don't think this is true, there are also e-bikes which while much less exercise would mitigate the difficulty and still be some physical activity for Americans
pdabbadabba 4y ago
It's true that Americans are overweight and out-of-shape, on average. But it's an extreme exaggeration to say that 80% of them are so unfit that they couldn't walk or bike to work. Of course, their poor fitness may make Americans less likely to want to walk or bike, but I don't see why we'd assume that this can't be overcome with the right set of incentives.
- dominotw 4y ago
  > But surely it's an extreme exaggeration to say that 80% of them are so unfit that they couldn't walk or bike to work. That was a stat put out by CDC [1]. Even after aggressive 64 yr cutoff only 22.9% of U.S. adults aged 18–64 met the guidelines. 80% of people are willing to ignore CDCs modest guidelines and risk " many chronic conditions, disability, and mortality " per cdc . do you really think putting a bike lane is going is better motivation than death ? 1. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhsr/nhsr112.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhsr/nhsr112.pdf
  - pdabbadabba 4y ago
    I don't have the time to read this report cover-to-cover but, based on the quick skim I just did, it seems to provide very little support of your claim, These are just the percentages of people who don't meet the "2008 federal guidelines for both aerobic and muscle-strengthening activities during leisure-time physical activity." The report seems to say nothing about whether these people could walk or bike to work. It simply confirms the point that I've already acknowledged, which is that Americans are unfit, on average. If there's a particular passage that you have in mind, feel free to point me to it. > do you really think putting a bike lane is going is better motivation than death At the risk of taking this argument too seriously: It doesn't have to be better. It just has to be additive. And making something more convenient can be very powerful. Among other things, unlike marginally decreasing one's risk of death, something that makes your commute easier/cheaper/more enjoyable offers immediate, ascertainable benefits--unlike decreasing the risk of death, which is impossible to perceive in the moment, is highly contingent, and only mitigates a risk that is presumed to exist only far in the future. More broadly, I honestly can't understand what your position is here. Can it really be that adding bike lane has no effect on peoples's willingness to ride a bike? That just seems...obviously wrong. Of course, how big an effect a given measure might have is a different matter. And, in any case, Nobody said that just "putting in a bike lane" would get the job done on its own. Though it seems obvious that even that very modest step would help. There are--quite obviously--a lot of other levers out there. I'm no expert but, just off the top of my head we could also make it less convenient to drive and encourage development that allows people to live near where they work.
nobodyandproud 4y ago
It’s not a permanent condition. During my teen years I worked to running 5km in 18 minutes (teen angst and crushes did wonders for motivation). 30 years later and 30 lbs overweight (thanks, covid), and I decided to start going to the gym and I added the treadmill. After one month my heartrate at the 10 minute mark at a leisurely 12:00 minutes a mile pace (nowhere near my teen years) went from 150 to 130. Mostly it’s been about getting my diaphragm back in shape. If I were smarter or more sensible I would’ve started with the elliptical first, but expensive running shoes and better techniques have kept my back and knees from hurting (so far).
shusaku 4y ago
“We can’t build an infrastructure for people to walk or bike more because everyone is too fat!” Add this to your standup routine, it’s truly the stuff of parody.
- dominotw 4y ago
  Dumb comment. Obesity is driven mainly by diet. No amount of walking will make you less fat.

And basic fitness which unfortunately rules out 80% of population in usa. Thats really the problem not lack of bike lanes that HN seems to belive is the panacea.

guelo 4y ago

Lack of basic fitness is not a permanent chronic condition.

dominotw 4y ago
It is. How many people do you know that have turned things around, i am guessing not many.
- joshlemer 4y ago
  Probably because in North America we make it so damn hard to walk or bike anywhere, combined with a culture that teaches us that getting an acceptable level of exercise requires going out of your way to purchase a gym membership and find time in the day 3 times a week to go there, rather than just go outside and walk to get your groceries.
  - dominotw 4y ago
    Is that really the reason though? In India ppl have to walk everywhere, Cars are still a luxury for a majority of the population. yet 50% of the population is obese and has one of the highest heart disease rates anywhere in the world. Obesity is driven mostly by diet, sure walking helps but 90% is diet.

atlasunshrugged 4y ago

I don't think this is true, there are also e-bikes which while much less exercise would mitigate the difficulty and still be some physical activity for Americans

pdabbadabba 4y ago

It's true that Americans are overweight and out-of-shape, on average. But it's an extreme exaggeration to say that 80% of them are so unfit that they couldn't walk or bike to work. Of course, their poor fitness may make Americans less likely to want to walk or bike, but I don't see why we'd assume that this can't be overcome with the right set of incentives.

dominotw 4y ago
> But surely it's an extreme exaggeration to say that 80% of them are so unfit that they couldn't walk or bike to work. That was a stat put out by CDC [1]. Even after aggressive 64 yr cutoff only 22.9% of U.S. adults aged 18–64 met the guidelines. 80% of people are willing to ignore CDCs modest guidelines and risk " many chronic conditions, disability, and mortality " per cdc . do you really think putting a bike lane is going is better motivation than death ? 1. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhsr/nhsr112.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nhsr/nhsr112.pdf
- pdabbadabba 4y ago
  I don't have the time to read this report cover-to-cover but, based on the quick skim I just did, it seems to provide very little support of your claim, These are just the percentages of people who don't meet the "2008 federal guidelines for both aerobic and muscle-strengthening activities during leisure-time physical activity." The report seems to say nothing about whether these people could walk or bike to work. It simply confirms the point that I've already acknowledged, which is that Americans are unfit, on average. If there's a particular passage that you have in mind, feel free to point me to it. > do you really think putting a bike lane is going is better motivation than death At the risk of taking this argument too seriously: It doesn't have to be better. It just has to be additive. And making something more convenient can be very powerful. Among other things, unlike marginally decreasing one's risk of death, something that makes your commute easier/cheaper/more enjoyable offers immediate, ascertainable benefits--unlike decreasing the risk of death, which is impossible to perceive in the moment, is highly contingent, and only mitigates a risk that is presumed to exist only far in the future. More broadly, I honestly can't understand what your position is here. Can it really be that adding bike lane has no effect on peoples's willingness to ride a bike? That just seems...obviously wrong. Of course, how big an effect a given measure might have is a different matter. And, in any case, Nobody said that just "putting in a bike lane" would get the job done on its own. Though it seems obvious that even that very modest step would help. There are--quite obviously--a lot of other levers out there. I'm no expert but, just off the top of my head we could also make it less convenient to drive and encourage development that allows people to live near where they work.

nobodyandproud 4y ago

It’s not a permanent condition. During my teen years I worked to running 5km in 18 minutes (teen angst and crushes did wonders for motivation). 30 years later and 30 lbs overweight (thanks, covid), and I decided to start going to the gym and I added the treadmill. After one month my heartrate at the 10 minute mark at a leisurely 12:00 minutes a mile pace (nowhere near my teen years) went from 150 to 130. Mostly it’s been about getting my diaphragm back in shape. If I were smarter or more sensible I would’ve started with the elliptical first, but expensive running shoes and better techniques have kept my back and knees from hurting (so far).

shusaku 4y ago

“We can’t build an infrastructure for people to walk or bike more because everyone is too fat!” Add this to your standup routine, it’s truly the stuff of parody.

dominotw 4y ago
Dumb comment. Obesity is driven mainly by diet. No amount of walking will make you less fat.