4 ms·

That was a reference to attempts to have the state run entire industries, not the NHS specifically. The forced collectivization of agriculture pre-dates the NHS

That was a reference to attempts to have the state run entire industries, not the NHS specifically. The forced collectivization of agriculture pre-dates the NHS by decades. People learned from that, but too narrowly. In modern Britain the food supply is not run by the government even though it's more critical to health than the NHS is, but healthcare is state run and is now experiencing a USSR style collapse. As for evidence free, well, how do you explain the BBC story that was presented as evidence? Or how about the 999 callout times, or the many other metrics that show the NHS has clearly broken to the point that even the most basic healthcare cannot be taken for granted? The evidence is everywhere.

sorokod 4y ago
I'll skip the references to USSR and collectivisation. The BBC story, taken at face value, shows a system that has failed the patient. Not for the last time too. NHS needs to be compared not to some ideal setup that never fails and is cheap to run but an actual alternative. Here the alternative seems to be US style, privitised, extract-max-value-for-the-shareholders system. You need a great deal more than a BBC story to justify something like that
- origin_path 4y ago
  Such stories are unique to the UK, as far as I know, and they aren't rare anymore. Maybe third world countries too. The problem here is real and the causes are clear from history - ignoring history because you don't like it is no solution. My own father now cannot get healthcare in the UK for an injury he has, point blank cannot get it. There are no appointments at the local hospital with no information on when new appointments can be booked, it takes weeks to even see a doctor at all - maybe over the phone if you're lucky. They're talking about going private but all my family members in the UK seem to thinking that at once and the UK private sector is woefully under-provisioned due to decades of near religious pro-NHS fervor and an inability to compete against tax-funded services. The US in particular is demonized in the UK and it's dumb. Firstly, there are tons of private healthcare systems elsewhere in the world that aren't the US, it's the default mode, not an exception. Secondly, healthcare in the USA is actually excellent. If you have insurance then what's happening to my family just wouldn't occur. All the controversy in the US is around people who can't or won't buy insurance yet who don't qualify for Medicare/Medicaid, and the employer link that is a quirk of their tax code specifically. Phasing out the NHS wouldn't require the UK to bias the tax code in favor of employment-linked health insurance, and it wouldn't mean needing to exactly duplicate their benefits schemes. Those two things aren't fundamental to the private run healthcare model.
deleted 4y ago
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sorokod 4y ago

I'll skip the references to USSR and collectivisation. The BBC story, taken at face value, shows a system that has failed the patient. Not for the last time too. NHS needs to be compared not to some ideal setup that never fails and is cheap to run but an actual alternative. Here the alternative seems to be US style, privitised, extract-max-value-for-the-shareholders system. You need a great deal more than a BBC story to justify something like that

origin_path 4y ago
Such stories are unique to the UK, as far as I know, and they aren't rare anymore. Maybe third world countries too. The problem here is real and the causes are clear from history - ignoring history because you don't like it is no solution. My own father now cannot get healthcare in the UK for an injury he has, point blank cannot get it. There are no appointments at the local hospital with no information on when new appointments can be booked, it takes weeks to even see a doctor at all - maybe over the phone if you're lucky. They're talking about going private but all my family members in the UK seem to thinking that at once and the UK private sector is woefully under-provisioned due to decades of near religious pro-NHS fervor and an inability to compete against tax-funded services. The US in particular is demonized in the UK and it's dumb. Firstly, there are tons of private healthcare systems elsewhere in the world that aren't the US, it's the default mode, not an exception. Secondly, healthcare in the USA is actually excellent. If you have insurance then what's happening to my family just wouldn't occur. All the controversy in the US is around people who can't or won't buy insurance yet who don't qualify for Medicare/Medicaid, and the employer link that is a quirk of their tax code specifically. Phasing out the NHS wouldn't require the UK to bias the tax code in favor of employment-linked health insurance, and it wouldn't mean needing to exactly duplicate their benefits schemes. Those two things aren't fundamental to the private run healthcare model.

deleted 4y ago

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